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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 66.177.53.184 (talk) at 22:55, 24 December 2006 (→Can someone PLEASE take that big *** donation thing off the top of the page?: wikipedia is not censored, this is what the original poster wrote). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Can someone PLEASE take that big ass donation thing off the top of the page?

Please? - Anonymous, 2:13 12/17.06 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.19.12.207 (talk) 22:14, 17 December 2006 (UTC).[reply]

Just click the "dismiss" link to the right of it. That sets a cookie that will prevent the donation bar from appearing. If you do not have a cookie-enabled browser, however, I guess you're out of luck --Jmax- 22:48, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Plus you have to be a registered user. Chris as I am Chris 22:54, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

How about moving it to the sidebar? It would be still prominent on every page, but less intrusive. Rafy 00:14, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's supposed to be intrusive. If it's easily ignored, people won't get guilted/annoyed into contributing. See pledge drive for background on the annoyance factor, though people outside the U.S. that have state-funded public stations may find this whole idea weird. - BanyanTree 00:35, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Believe it or not, in previous fund drives, people have looked at the size of the notice vs. the number of donations, and it actually does increase donations significantly to make it slightly more intrusive. It's a bit of a pain, but it's worth it for the Foundation. Ral315 (talk) 07:47, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
well, if this is an arms race of sorts, does this mean it will take up half the screen, flash and play jingle-bells in two years' time? I find it bearable still, but the 'dismiss' link will prompt many people in reflexively switching it off without even looking at it -- so maybe a small bar that cannot be switched off will turn out to produce a greater effect than a big annoying banner you switch off and forget §about in two seconds. dab (𒁳) 10:16, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
No, it won't. For starters, not all English Wikipedia readers are Christian or in the Northern Hemisphere, and thus Jingle Bells is irrelevant. Anyway, take a look at the pledge drive. As you may seem, there's multiple people/organizations matching donations, something we have never had before. This trend will continue, and will mean our goals are reached quicker. There is no other way to keep Wikimedia running as one of the top 10 most visited websites internationally, other than soliciting money. So get over it. -- Zanimum 16:40, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
For example, I like it, and I enjoy refreshing the browser sometimes just to see how much it did increase. :) --V. Szabolcs 20:12, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Choose one of the following actions:

  • Create an account, log in, donate, click dismiss.
  • Create an account, log in, don't donate, click dismiss.
  • Don't create an account, put up with it, stop complaining, it won't be there forever.

--Monotonehell 06:06, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

i just use adblock to remove them... The Uber Ninja 09:02, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
If you're logged in just press "dismiss". --Monotonehell 09:16, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, and adblock shouldn't be able to remove it, as it's hosted on-site. -- Zanimum 16:40, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Uh... why not? The Adblock extension for Firefox, and most other decent ad blockers, can block individual scripts, images or objects without blocking an entire site – Gurch 23:16, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Stop complaining from an IP. Follow WP:DICK. --Ineffable3000 03:20, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I really don't think you can classify objecting to begging notices as being a dick. I mean, the guy even said please. --Sam Blanning(talk) 19:19, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
If he really cared about the Wikipedia project, he would get an account, would do many legitimate edits, and wouldn't be here complaining about minor flaws. --Ineffable3000 21:57, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

how much do i need to donate?

how much do i need to donate to have a article of myself? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Wtfmaaan (talk • contribs) 08:11, 19 December 2006 (UTC).[reply]

I'm afraid that that's not how Wikipedia works. Unless your donation is huge enough to be covered by multiple news agencies, it will not in itself confer the required notability for an article on you. If you want to be covered by Wikipedia, your best bet is to do something unique or notable ennough for the media and world at large to take notice of you. GeeJo (t)⁄(c) • 08:24, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, and there was me thinking my 50p would get me an article. MFlet1 09:43, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
You can, of course, make yourself a user page for nothing; just go to User:Wtfmaaan and start typing – Gurch 11:19, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
you mean, DFTTmaaan. dab (𒁳) 11:40, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

man then what's the point of donating when u dont get anything back. i'd spent the money to get a can of coke —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Wtfmaaan (talk • contribs).

Funny, I thought people were paying for the continued pleasure of having and being able to contribute to an online encyclopedia. The project as a whole is primarily financed by donations. Dragons flight 16:10, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's your money, not mine --Signaleer 18:06, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Read WP:VAIN. However, if you donate a billion dollars, CNN might do a 30-second shot about you, and you might get a stub article. --Ineffable3000 21:59, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Languages of Wikipedia

I'm used to use only the english Wikipedia, although my native tongue is finnish. I think it's best to participate to the most active Wikipedia in order to gain the most synergia through diversity and confrontation. We should build our native Wikipedia as a translation, not as an original version. But I've discovered a boundary, namely that history articles seem to be written only in the native language, and it seems appropriate to do so rather than to leave it for other nationalities. It would be negligence towards one's own cultural identity and linguistic distictiveness to write the history of his own culture in a foreign language. English is probably the most wide-spread language in the world. This can be measured by defining the areas of the world where some fixed percentage of people who know english. Thus I ask, should we write our own history in our own language, or write it first in english, while having a comfort of the idea that it's going to be translated? Teemu Ruskeepää 11:37, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bear in mind that posting the question here will introduce a major bias to the answers you receive. Editors of the English-language Wikipedia are more likely to encourage you to edit the English-language version, just as editors on the Finnish Wikipedia would encourage you to post there. Ultimately it's up to you which you contribute to, there are pros and cons for both choices. GeeJo (t)⁄(c) • 12:42, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Firstly, this is probably not the best place to start such a discussion. Try Wikipedia:Village pump or possibly somewhere up in the meta. But I think that since you have a grasp of both Finnish and English that you should contribute to both language versions of "your history". Once in Finnish and once in English. The only neglegence would be denying one or the other language groups the knowledge. --Monotonehell 13:16, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Do it in Finnish. It's the right thing to do, besides, Finnlanders are probably more interested in Finnish history anyways.Cameron Nedland 23:55, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't know about this policy for Finnish Wikipedia. Personally, I'd like to see more foreign language article translated into English. Please write in Finnish (or Swedish) and then translate to English. It makes sense, as there will be more people with knowledge on the subject who are willing to contribute only in Finnish. Often I see very poor articles on English wikipedia, and when I check to see if more is written in another language I find the same poor article has been translated (I don't read any other languages, but it's obvious). As an English speaker, I'd much rather see more foreign language article translated into English, instead of the other way around. And now that I've said my two cents, yes, Wikipedia:Village pump is probably a better place for this. —Pengo talk · contribs 02:13, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Excuse my language, but the English wikipedia is fucking enormous, let some of the other wikipedias get some articles. None of the others come close, next largest is German and we have THREE TIMES AS MANY ARTICLES.Cameron Nedland 05:00, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
In my opinion, all of us just need to work on the English wikipedia, and then we can work on translating English wikipedia articles to the other Wikipedias. --Ineffable3000 22:00, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia languages

German wikipedia has more than 500,000 articles. 84.191.255.250 21:23, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

With the 20ks all bottled up, the admins will come up with a new threshold - like 30k - which likely lead to the same languages displayed. --Howard the Duck 04:02, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
They are conversing about the language categories that appear on the main page, which is definitely an issue if it gets too crowded. It doesn't matter which specific language is more popular -- thats not even the topic of discussion. falsedef 03:49, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Haven't we had this discussion 3 or 4 times already over the past month? Nil Einne 12:40, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, but those darn foreigners keep writing more articles! If the article counts didn't change we wouldn't have to keep reconsidering how to list them :) – Gurch 14:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
But my point was that this isn't a new discussion. The German language wiki has been 500k for quite a while and people keep mentioning this and asking the same question. Sometimes it's the French one as well. But it's not a new milestone, just a rehash of the old one Nil Einne 10:33, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Positioning of appeal banner

The banner that runs across all pages asking for donations to the Wikimedia Foundation clashes with the co-ordinates for cities at the top of their pages. It would be good if someone who knows how to do it could sort this. Thanks. Itsmejudith 11:55, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Is that really the best place for coordinates? Wouldn't it be better with the rest of the article? Koweja 01:44, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is that the position of coordinates generated by {{coor title dms}}, etc are absolute on the page, rather than relative to the title of the page. In previous funding drives the location was just moved down temporarily, but I have no idea what sort of workaround is possible when some users see the banner and some do not. I have asked this question at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Geographical coordinates#donations banner. - BanyanTree 03:23, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Get ready for tomorrow

Vandalism is going to go sky high when this is featured.--Donald Goldberg 09:28, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oh god, another Pokemon FA. — Dark Shikari talk/contribs 11:52, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I thought they wouldn't do it again, hehe.--cloviz 15:25, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
So I herd u liek torchicz... Pacific Coast Highway {Ho! Ho! Ho! • My Presents!} 01:26, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm going to bring all Pokemon-related articles to FA. Then we can have a year of Pokemon FA's on the Main Page. It would become the PokeWiki. Nishkid64 02:10, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I think one exists already. :: Colin Keigher (Talk) 02:11, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think that Wikipedia should have a search bar. I think that it would be helpful and I know that I would use it. I know this is random, but they should. Just a plain old search bar, like the one Google has except for Wikipedia--Douglas Bradford Oliver 18:44, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

We already do. Its on the navigation bar on the left. FellowWikipedian 20:26, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I think he means a search bar for the web browser.--cloviz 21:47, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Firefox has one for Wikipedia. --Maxamegalon2000 23:24, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
There is an OpenSearch plugin which anyone with a capable web browser (Firefox 2 and IE7) can auto-detect and install. --Midnighttonight (rendezvous) 02:32, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Someone should make one. It is not difficult to program one for IE or Mozilla. --Ineffable3000 22:03, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Torchic!

Torchic vandalism

Would someone please lock the page now? Billbrock 02:55, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Another porn picture has been loaded over the article. If the article can't be locked down, then perhaps the main page link to it should be broken for the time being. Askari Mark (Talk) 03:04, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That was to a template that was used in the article. It should be ok now, as I just went through every template and they're all protected now (including the one used in that vandalism). --Rory096 03:08, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! I had almost invited my second-grade son, who loves these games, to come read the article. Glad I checked first, because that stuff was really sick. If you can discover the culprit, I believe the Feds would be willing to go after them as this breaks several federal laws. Askari Mark (Talk)
It's idiotic, yes, but I doubt that even if the person who did it was found out that he/she could actually be prosectuted. They couldn't get him for exposing a minor to indecent material or whatever because the troll didn't actually have any way of knowing that minors would view the page.--Azer Red Si? 21:09, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I do not remember anyone be prosecuted for anything analagous. --Ineffable3000 22:10, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

First Bulbasaur, now this...?

Why do we need another Pokemon on the main page? Could someone tell me how these get featured? They are fictional cartoon creatures and yet they are on the main page? Jeez, wikipedia, how can you sink this low? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Caffolote (talk • contribs) 03:50, 23 December 2006 (UTC).[reply]

This is the guy you want to talk to: User talk:Raul654. He is the one who chooses which article gets to be featured on the main page. Andrew Levine 04:22, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Featured articles are chosen based on quality, not topic. — Dark Shikari talk/contribs 04:30, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
In response to both this and the below, featured articles are the best articles on Wikipedia. If that happens to be on a Pokemon, well, live with it. It's a good article, so it deserves its spot here. DoomsDay349 04:34, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Not exactly encyclopedic material. Then again there's the Pokedex(I can't belive I remember that now).--The jazz musician 04:38, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Now we know your big secret, hehehe.--cloviz 05:20, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Not exactly encyclopedic material? What pray tell is your definition of encyclopedic material? DoomsDay349 04:44, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Somehow, I doubt that we'd be having this discussion if the "fictional cartoon creature" depicted were Bugs Bunny or Mickey Mouse. —David Levy 04:41, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well of course, since they are very well-known, but I doubt that any one except poke-nerds (no offense intended) has even heard of "Torchic". This isn't poke-wiki. Featured articles should be ones that a fairly wide range of people can relate to.--Azer Red Si? 04:48, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Then I suggest that you formally propose changes to the selection criteria. As it stands, Torchic qualifies (as does any topic notable enough for inclusion in Wikipedia). At issue is the article's quality, not the its demographics. —David Levy 05:03, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, even topics that aren't notable enough for inclusion could be FAs. FAs are judged solely on content, not on the topic. Technically, an article could be both on the main page as an FA and on AfD at the same time (and the AfD could even be in good faith)! --Rory096 05:14, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Getting FA status is one thing, and yes, all articles are worthy of it, but being on the main page is another.--Azer Red Si? 05:27, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Does a page exist where we can work toward buliding consensus on a set of standards for main page material? Djbaniel 04:54, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • I'm surprised people are still complaining about main page topics. I rarely act frank and rude, but everyone, deal with it, act mature, and move on; it's today's featured article. It IS a featured article, and most people have no real issue with its inclusion on the main page. Period. — Deckiller 05:00, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Azer Red. It's just something obscure. Notable cartoon characters that are well written should deserve a spot. --The jazz musician 05:19, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

So, you think Pokemon is not a "notable cartoon"?--Eternal Imortal 16:29, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
Pokemon as it is, is very famous cartoon. Torchic is not IMHO. And it is totally irrelevant atleast. I suggest a policy change in this matter, so that only relevant or interesting articles are chosen for front page.-- Anupamsr|talk|contribs 21:54, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think you guys are missing the point. The point is not that Torchic is a fictional pokemon and also the featured article of the day. The point is that it is the featured article shortly after Bulbasaur. I understand that Torchic warrants inclusion on the main page, but couldn't it do so next year, when Bulbasaur is not so fresh in everyone's minds? People will think Wikipedia is concerned with topics that are wholly trivial.--Oreo Priest 16:22, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Both The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask and Final Fantasy X were main page articles this year, and in a relatively short distance between them (probably less than between Bulbasaur and Torchic), and you see no problem with that? Seriously, if you want to complain about featured articles, go bug Raul (it was his plan to put Torchic on the main page this month, with Bulbasaur in mind).—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 00:41, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It's been 5 months since Bulbasaur. That's about 150 FAs apart; plenty of distance. Generally, the rule is only that similar topics don't go upon within a week or two of each other. —Cuiviénen 00:50, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
But next year we have to make room for Pikachu and Charizard. Dragons flight 00:53, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I wonder, why is it so bad about a Pokémon being on "Today's Featured Article"? I don't see a difference, just because it's fictitious and because it's a cartoon. It doesn't matter if it's a cartoon, the point is that it's featured, in my opinion. I mean, today's Article is a plant. --Tohru Honda13Sign here! 01:21, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I guess it's true that Torchic isn't the first obscure article to be featured on the main page, and not much concern has been shown about articles on obscure subjects being featured until Torchic. Maybe some of us (myself included) are being a little poke-prejudiced. Featuring articles on obscure subjects is something that I can see people being legitimately concerned about, but if we are going to be so, then that concern shouldn't only be in effect when Pokemon articles are featured.--Azer Red Si? 21:03, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Pokemon were decided to be notable according to WP:N, so if they are very good articles, let them be featured. --Ineffable3000 22:15, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

POKEMAN

...WHY? Akloki 04:31, 23 December 2006 (UTC)Akloki[reply]

It's obvious. Fnord.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 04:41, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It really is.--Eternal Imortal 16:18, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Torchic?

Why is an article about a type of Pokemon on the main page? The day's featured article should be something that a fairly wide range of people are familiar with, not something obscure that only a very specific group can relate to.--Azer Red Si? 04:46, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

OK. I just said something about this on the Torchic talk page. That is not a requirement. A featured article is a good article, one of Wikipedia's best, and is recognized as such. Something that people can relate to is not a prerequisite. Now, please, people, to everyone talking about this, ask yourself this question; don't you think the world has bigger problems than Wikipedia putting Torchic up as a featured article? "Oh yes, there's a war in Iraq, several terrorist nations have nuclear weapons, globing warming is on the rise, but did you hear? Wikipedia put Torchic up as a featured article! Let's devote all our time and resources to complaining about it." DoomsDay349 05:00, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Especially since every true academic mind I've met in real life is actually impressed that Wikipedia can feature such a wide range of topics, and presents the material on the main page in a balanced manner. This is a source for general information, and this article doesn't go into excessive detail. I wish people's arguements wouldn't be bended to appear more mature than they actually are just by criticizing topics with a fictional foundation. — Deckiller 05:03, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'd just like to say Thank God that tomorrow's FA is about a shrub. Nothing controversial about that. Though you never know...*gulp*. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by DoomsDay349 (talk • contribs) 05:07, 23 December 2006 (UTC).[reply]
Lots of shrubcruft. Cue the complaints. — Deckiller 05:10, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I used to believe, from my own experience editing them, that the botany articles were the quietest, most easy going place to edit on Wikipedia. My belief was SHATTERED when, one day, I found a vicious edit war on a botany article (sorry, I cannot remember which one). Raul654 05:11, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Actually Banksia brownii sparked a very silly heated debate involving respected community members when it was nominated at WP:GA over WP:WIAGA criteria. There more pokemon FA than plant FA and half of the plant FA are two Banksia Gnangarra 05:32, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not against fictional material being on the main page, but I think that it should be such that a wide range of people could reasonably identify with it (e.g. Mickey Mouse), not something that only people deeply interested with a certain series would know anything about.--Azer Red Si? 05:24, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I doubt very many people know about the Kengir uprising. Does that mean it shouldn't have appeared on the main page? --Rory096 05:27, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I believe the point of an encyclopedia is not to learn about that which you already know, but to discover the unknown. DoomsDay349 05:30, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

hm, the only 'objection' that could be raised is there was another pokemon article some weeks ago. --87.194.72.129 05:32, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That was in July, not exactly recent. --Rory096 05:35, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
yeah, i mean, some could still say even in a year two pokemon articles are too much. i personally don't mind. --87.194.72.129 17:06, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Azer, I have come across tonnes of TFAs which 1) don't interest me, and 2) I don't identify with. This is one of them, and I have no problem with it being here. There is probably more interest, sadly, in this article than there is in the Green and Golden Bell Frog article, which was on the page earlier this month. And guess what? Not a single comment on this talk page. So, please tell me, what is your real problem with this being TFA, because your current argument doesn't stand up if you look at the archive. Oh, and people of many generations do not identify with Mickey Mouse, including mine. It is a very old character, which has not been popular for an extremely long time. There are millions of Pokemon fans out there, you'll have to live with it. --liquidGhoul 14:24, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The quick response to objections of this kind is: See Wikipedia:Main Page FAQ#I think that today's featured article is awful. What can be done about it? - BanyanTree 15:56, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
You don't need to like Pokemon but you heard of them and so has everybody else.--Eternal Imortal 16:25, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
What is this awful shrub on the main page? I've never heard of it! How can Wikipedia have degenerated to featuring stupid, boring plants on the main page? I demand a recount! --Zeality 00:49, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

English Language Page

What happened to the article on the English Language?It's now a red link or was yesterday at least.I asked this before but some people were confused by what i meant? Dermo69 13:36, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

An administrator was removing a revision from the page history, which has to be done when someone posts personal information or violates copyright – Gurch 23:28, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
There's a bit more detail at Wikipedia:Main Page FAQ#Why is an article that is prominently linked from the Main Page missing? - BanyanTree 15:58, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

WHAT?!

BANSKIA BROWNII?!!?! What is wikipedia doing having such an IMMATURE article being featured!!?!?!??!!?!?!?!?!!?!? I CAN'T BELIEVE IT! WHY!!!????????????

Jesus Christ not again. DoomsDay349 06:16, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm going to award a barnstar if, before the year is out, someone comes up with an original joke about the choice of the day's featured article; one that makes me laugh and hasn't been done four billion and six times before. --Sam Blanning(talk) 13:10, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Attractive...

...is a point of view. I, for one, threw up when I saw that plant. --JohnO 04:03, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

correct its a point of view, its also supported by citation within the article body specifically in the cultivation section with reference #3. Gnangarra 08:09, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Certainly, it does attract many birds and insects, as it is "a heavy producer of nectar". —Centrx→talk • 09:42, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

what are those red numbers in recent changes

question--12.72.32.40 04:04, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I am wondering the same thing, also what do the green numbers in brackets mean? This is also showing up in my watchlist. Suicup 06:13, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I believe it is the size of the change in the number of characters (green = characters added; red = removed) Bwithh 06:20, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well, then, by god, that should be explained. We have to keep our software user-friendly and clear at all times. By the way, who thought this additional bit of information was important enough to clutter up user watchlist pages as well? Badagnani 06:35, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It's the number of bytes. This change was introduced over the last few days, so it probably is going to be updated soon. (Although the "user friendly and clear" kind of contradicts Bug 1...) As for who introduced it in watchlists, bug Leon.[1] Titoxd(?!?) 06:45, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Is there going to be some sort of anouncement somewhere that tells us what they are? Because really that's going to confuse a lot of people. H2P (Yell at me for what I've done) 06:50, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It only takes an administrator with a bit of sense to add an explanation to MediaWiki:Recentchangestext; lo and behold, that's what has been done, except they only linked to the village pump; since discussions there are temporary someone's going to have to make a more permanent explanation at some point – Gurch 11:07, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Re: "Christmas Island"

Kiritimati is the largest atoll in the world, not the oldest. --Indolences 07:16, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for pointing this out. Next time, please make use of WP:ERRORS as per instructions at the top of this talkpage. Service is usually quicker there. Thanks, again. -- PFHLai 14:35, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Difference bewteen oversight and admin

i dont really see any difference bewteen the 2. both can hide revision. so what's the real difference. 07:20, 24 December 2006 (UTC)Block of sugars

Revisions deleted by admins can be seen via Special:Undelete, those by oversight users cannot. Titoxd(?!?) 07:25, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
In other words, revisions can be in one of three places; in the page history, in the deleted page history, or gone completely (still in the database, but only developers can see them). Revisions in the page history can be seen by everyone. The deleted page history is where all the edits to a page go when the page is deleted, and only administrators can see it; since any administrator can delete or restore a page, any administrator can move edits in or out of the deleted history, but they have to delete the page in order to do so. Oversight allows you to take edits directly out of the page history without deleting the page first, and once this has been done the edits are inaccessible even to users with oversight (in other words, unlike most actions on a wiki the action is irreversible without the intervention of a developer, which is why only a few trusted users have the ability to oversight revisions) – Gurch 11:04, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Coloured numbers on watchlist

I'm still not sure i totally understand this, even after reading the "What do the coloured numbers mean?" link.

Am i asking in the wrong place?

If not, can someone please clarify further?

It is something to do with bugs and bites.

Simply south 12:44, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's how much text has been added or removed to the page by the last edit. The number is in bytes, which is a small unit of measurement for computer... stuff. Your post, for example, was 339 bytes. --Sam Blanning(talk) 12:52, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, so i am going to guess that the green numbers indicate the number of bytes added and the red numbers are the number of bytes removed
Is that right?
Also, what have bugs got to do with this? Simply south 13:07, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yep. Although my watchlist displays all the numbers in black, with plus and minus signs.
As for bugs, news about new features, and requests for them, are generally found at the same place for reports of bugs (i.e. errors in Wikipedia's software) and bug fixes - that is http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/. --Sam Blanning(talk) 13:13, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Okay so the bugs parts are just a reminder then to report if anything goes wrong, or something like that? Simply south 13:21, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yes - and to show where the original feature request was (which is referred to as 'bug 8331', even though it's not technically a bug that we didn't have this before). --Sam Blanning(talk) 13:24, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Err okay. Thanks. Simply south 13:28, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Please see Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Colored numbers in Watchlist. --PFHLai 14:23, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
He already read that before asking here. --Sam Blanning(talk) 16:08, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I like it because it helps me see whether edits are actually 'minor'. --Ineffable3000 22:17, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Vandalism

What was that? Who put up the penis picture, and why has all the talk about it been removed? J Milburn 15:44, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Also, why has it been deleted from the history? Have I just slipped into some kind of Nazi 'The vandalism never happened.' Conspiracy? J Milburn 15:47, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Some admin who can delete individual versions must have done it. I hope they found how it was done and prevented it, because I found nothing. The templates on the curent version were not vandalized.--HereToHelp 15:48, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Well, let's go on Wikipedia and find out about that... Oh my god." Something needs to be done quickly. --71.252.244.148 15:50, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I suspect that Wikipedia:POTD_row/December_24,_2006 was vadlaised since it was just protected a few minutes ago. I have no idea why the admin would have deleted the revision. Why not keep it since the image is already deleted anyways? Jeltz talk 15:52, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Correction, the vandalism but not the images are still there in the history. I just missed it. Jeltz talk 15:59, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The vandalism was of the whole page. EVERYTHING was covered by a huge image of a penis. J Milburn 15:54, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, but that can be done through nice CSS tricks. Not sure if that was the case this time though. Jeltz talk 15:56, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is the second time I have personally seen this happen... vandalization like this cause Wikipedia to lose credit, and it is already viewed lowly by many people. This is exactly the sort of thing that causes more problems for the community. It bothers me that the Main Page is not safeguarded against such attacks. --Ihmhi 15:53, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It was on there for long enough that I have to wonder how many people actually saw it, too. If anything could fuel the "imagine if a child saw this!!!!" issue, this is certainly it, vadalism or not. I think they take away the history (as opposed to simply reverting it) in extreme cases like this...but still...it seems weird that they are deleting the comments about it. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 15:53, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I believe the history of the discussion was also removed. I suspect that was by the same rogue admin who vandalised the main page. Who was it? Anyone gonna tell? J Milburn 15:55, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
This history was not removed. -- tariqabjotu 16:06, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is very strange. I could find no evidence of any penis images being uploaded recently. --Ixfd64 15:57, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This image was not uploaded to Wikipedia. -- tariqabjotu 16:06, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Aren't POTDs protected? It would sense that if the main page is protected, then so must be everything else displayed on the main page. The picture was up there for at least 10 minutes, and when you have such a busy site, the numbers must be in the thousands.... Cacofonie 15:57, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It should have been protected before it went onto the Main Page. Obviously, it was overlooked. --Sam Blanning(talk) 16:03, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
As I said, to me it looked like the whole page had been covered by the picture, it wsasn't just the POTD that was changed. And yes, as it was protected, it must have been an admin who did this. J Milburn 16:00, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I suppose it was the same guy that left his seasons greetings on my talk page yesterday... he uploaded the image, insisted it was suitable for the body modification article, and afterwards insisted the image is perfectly okay. The image appeared on WP:AFC (where I noticed it and proceeded to take action) yesterday via divs added to the page source in the same fashion - over everything. --Ouro 15:58, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Nope, the page was protected after the vandalism, though it should have been protected before it went onto the Main Page. --Sam Blanning(talk) 16:03, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

OK everyone it was not an admin. The POTD template mentioned above was unlocked, and some vandal added in the picture, which caused it to be on the main page. It has now been locked, as have the ones for the rest of the year. The vandal has been blocked indefinitely. The history hasn't been deleted, if you check the template history. --Majorly (Talk) 16:06, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Lock Main Page from Edit?

That was a sick image uploaded by some sick individual. Whoever viewed that would be scarred for years, if not for life. Can we urge Wikipedia to lock the main page everyday and not allow any major changes to it unless it's by an administrator or a tested wikipedia writer? -Eendrani 15:59, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Already, only admins can edit. J Milburn 16:01, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well, the problem was fixed fairly quickly, at least. This was obviously done by a registered user, and I'm sure somebody is already on their way to finding out who that is. Props to whoever it was on damage control on Christmas Eve...--SeanQuixote | talk | my contribs 16:03, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yup, the problem is that the main page includes other pages and sometimes people forget to protect those. Maybe a bot should protect the Featured Image template. The user was Panpel who is already banned by now. Jeltz talk 16:07, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

According to the history of Wikipedia:POTD row/December 24, 2006, the images in question were WikiHell.jpg, WikiReal.jpg, Wikipef (note that images can't be uploaded without a proper extension), Wikipain.jpg, and Wikicolor.jpg. However, I could find no evidence that any of these images ever existed. Am I missing something? --Ixfd64 16:08, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

They were in wikimedia commons. --Majorly (Talk) 16:10, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Mutated Penis? Deleted?

  • I just wrote a 'disscussion' on those 2 mutated penis pictures on the top page. . . and someone deleted it! What was it about? It was disgusting - can we even edit the homepage? was it a hack? Please someone tell me! User:JoWal
Please start new discussions at the bottom - this topic is already being discussed. --Monotonehell 16:07, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ending Some Speculation

There was no rogue admin that caused the vandalism on the Main Page. What happened was that a template transcluded on the Main Page was not protected (by accident; it was just overlooked). Around 15:30 (UTC), someone spotted the vulnerability and used several sneaky tactics to make the vandalism difficult to spot and fix. This is the result of an error on the part of the admins who did not see the template was not protected. However, realize this is extremely rare. The vandalism of the particular template was not actually removed. If you find it, that's great. However, I'm not going to explain it so that other vandals do not use the devious technique. -- tariqabjotu 16:05, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The question still remains as to why comments here about it were being reverted... ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 16:12, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Sometimes people will remove comments if their relevance has expired. The editor who removed the comments may have thought that. However, I endorse keeping these here at least a bit longer as people have questions. It may be a good idea to remove these at some point so potential vandals don't get any ideas as to how to add vandalism that is difficult to detect. -- tariqabjotu 16:21, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
They were probably chewed up by edit conflicts. I've already had to replace Tariq's post above. --Sam Blanning(talk) 16:21, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies for suggesting there was a rogue admin, I really got rather agitated when I saw the main page... J Milburn 16:27, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Also, to quash the speculation that some pretty CSS trick was used to make the picture look really large and dominate the page, the picture was merely set by the vandal to appear at a large size. This was really simple template vandalism that slipped onto the main page because one of the templates was left unprotected. Now, I suggest that we all go looking for the templates and images that will appear on the main page in the next week or two, and make sure they are all protected (or ask for them to be protected). Carcharoth 19:53, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Vandalism Comments Disappearing

Well here is one particular instance of comments being deleted... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ihmhi (talk • contribs) 16:16, 24 December 2006 (UTC).[reply]

Note what it says above that text: "Please start new discussions at the bottom of this talk page. Thank you." Comments about vandalism that is already being discussed added to the wrong part of the talk page will be removed, no questions asked. —Cuiviénen 16:41, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, for god's sake, people...

More penis vandalism? Am I really going to have to start checking every template myself? Enough. Get your act together. – Gurch 16:26, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Anybody up for the drama of trying to get an admin bot approved so we can make sure all the templates used on the Main Page and TFA are protected? It's got my support. - BanyanTree 17:00, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That's a good idea. I would also say that protecting the templates would be a start. dposse 17:42, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well, obviously, we need a dozen or so admins to double check the templates -- not just the one or two that has currently been the case. There might be more times that templates will be overlooked if both of them are busy and go on a wikibreak or something... Zzyzx11 (Talk) 17:58, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]


  • Enough is enough! This is the kind of lowly, intolerable and, frankly, disturbing conduct that cannot be accepted - under any circumstances. Wikipedia is used by many young people, including people from age 12 onwards. What about kids being exposed to this horrible image? Right on Christmas Eve! Also, think of people having been brought up in very traditional societies. What will they think about Wikipedia's inability to get its act together? Therefore, I would suggest that the following steps be taken, with immediate effect.

1.) Ban any user/IP address from modifying any part of Wikipedia, if identified with such gross conduct.

2.) Completely and permanently lock down the Main Page and restrict editing to the highest level of administrators

3.) Tighten the terms of editing of this encyclopaedia, especially for a group of articles that can be labelled as "politically or culturally contentious".

If we cannot get this done, then surely, we need to think about removing administrators who don't crack down hard enough on this kind of inacceptable behaviour. Prqc

We already do all of that. The failure to protect this one daily template was a rare oversight. As for removing administrators, this is a volunteer project, no-one is obligated to do any particular job (with a very few exceptions such as Raul as the Featured Article Director and those who volunteer for the Arbitration Committee), so there is no one admin who can be desysopped for failing to protect a template. We could always commit collective hara-kiri and have the entire admin corps desysopped; I'm sure a number of users would be very happy to see that. --Sam Blanning(talk) 18:16, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Rare? It's the second Main Page penis this month. Such an event should be impossible. Templates on the Featured Article have been infested with phalluses in a regular basis over the last few weeks. Wikipedia is one of the world's most-visited websites. The Main Page is by far our most-visited page. This simply isn't good enough – Gurch 18:39, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
{I'm just glad that most vandals aren't smart enough to know how to do template vandalism.--Azer Red Si? 21:42, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry, I have to agree with Gurch, this is not good enough. Even if it was "rare", as asserted by you, Sam, it is nonetheless a gross case of neglect that has brought up the issues I raised in my initial post. I'm certain that you are aware of the fact that Wikipedia is indeed one of the most visited websites on the internet (and rightly so). But in order to protect the sanctity of this project, something needs to be done. Lest you think that I am merely all talk and no action, I would be happy to apply for an admin post myself and monitor the current affairs articles for objectionable opinions/images. How's that for some contribution? Best regards, Prqc 19:00, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm hoping that this bot request will go through and we will get a centralised list of all the pages that are going on the Main Page tomorrow, and whether they've been protected yet or not. That would make it far harder for pages to slip through. (This post also posted to the similar thread at WP:AN.) --Sam Blanning(talk) 19:06, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Sam, much appreciated...but we need to find watertight ways of protecting our pages Prqc 19:30, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Prqc, wikipedia is not censored. If kids come here and search for the penis article, they are going to find images of a penis. The same goes for the female breast. It is not anyones fault but the parents if their kid comes here and sees disturbing images. I agree that the vandalism has to stop, but i think your arguement goes too far. This is an encyclopedia, not the catholic church. Having pictures of dicks a day before a christian holiday shouldn't mean anything here. Second, this penis vandalism isn't anything new. It's happened to the talk page before, and it happened to many articles on wikipedia. I know, because i was there at Steve Irwins article after his death when it was unprotected. It wasn't a pretty sight. dposse 19:53, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It should be noted, it's not the penises that make this a problem - it's the vandalism, period. It would not be better if it were false information, Ashlee Simpson, or anything else. So the rhetoric about "Think of teh children on Christmas Eve" is kind of beside the point. Phil Sandifer 20:21, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, actually it would. An unwanted picture of Ashlee Simpson on the Main Page would be confusing, and irritating for anyone wishing to use the Main Page, but it wouldn't make people recoil in horror, ban their kids from ever visiting the site and pelt us with complaints. However, it is safe to assume that if a high-visibility page is left unprotected, the worst that could possibly be done to it will happen before very long – Gurch 20:39, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia shouldn't be and is not responsible for what people see on this website. That should be and is the job of the parents of the children to censor what they can and cannot see. All we can do is make sure that we have a system in place that deals with vandals who decide to interupt the workings of this website. dposse 20:45, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed it shouldn't. It's not about responsibility (at least not until someone sues us); however, that doesn't mean we can shrug off incidents that damage Wikipedia's public image. I don't know if this latest incident was reported in the media, but when they get hold of such a thing, it is. So far Wikipedia's popularity has done nothing but rise, but that could all too easily change – Gurch 22:02, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Haha, i highly doubt anyone would sue wikipedia. If they did, it would get laughed outta court. This is an encyclopedia which is on the internet. Do people sue merriam-webster for having "fuck" in there? No, of course not. dposse 22:16, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Censorship is overrated. --Ineffable3000 22:35, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The real discussion took place at WP:ANI

Please see the discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Vandalism on Main Page, and please report vandalism like this to the Administrators' incidents noticeboard in future. Thanks.

For the record, the vandal uploaded images to Commons, and put the images in an unprotected template (the POTD one mentioned above). The initial vandalism lasted 8 minutes, was reverted, the vandal re-added the vandalism, this lasted 3 minutes before being reverted, the vandal re-added it again and this time it lasted 1 minute. Then, finally, the unprotected template was protected and the vandal blocked indefinitely. Carcharoth 19:36, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Follow-up proposal

I've written and posted something on this general issue here. Please comment there on how you think we can tighten up the checks and balances we need to have in place. Carcharoth 22:36, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Top of main page

it reads:

Welcome to Wikipedia,
the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit.
6,896,992 articles in English


I think it'd look better with the last line:

Welcome to Wikipedia,
the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit.


I think that'd look better, non? (I don't know why the formatting is off.) → JARED (t)  16:01, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'd rather we didn't - we're focusing on the quality of our articles rather than the quantity at the moment. --Sam Blanning(talk) 16:16, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I do not think it could hurt to make this tiny change, but perhaps the phrase "and counting" does put a bit too much emphasis on quantity over quality. I do think that a link like this would be useful in getting people to start a new article. --Ihmhi 16:17, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm with Ihmhi on that Samaster1991 16:20, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
No, because we don't want people to start new articles. Seriously, we don't. We want people to improve existing ones. We get far too many junk articles that then have to be deleted as it is, without encouraging more of them. It would be better, in fact, to remove the article count from the Main Page altogether; this was extensively discussed and for a time it wasn't there at all. Whereas in the early days of Wikipedia it was necessary to focus on the number of articles in order to increase basic coverage of important topics, the project now has more than enough articles, and the focus has shifted, as Sam Blanning mentioned, to improving existing articles rather than creating new ones. Also, anonymous users can't start articles at all (this was necessary to stem the aforementioned flood of junk articles) so this would be unhelpful – Gurch 16:24, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
If we don't want people to start new articles, why not just disable it? Should be easy enough, because unregistered users could't start new articles, so just expand it to include all registered users too. Then if something new happens that is encyclopedic (Olympic Games, presidential elections, etc.) nobody could start a new article and pretty soon Wikipedia will be so far behind that Citizendium could finally be the ultimate online encyclopedia. Thank you Wikipedia! --Gunsfornuns 17:19, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Straw man. - BanyanTree 17:26, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
We want people to create verified, neutral articles on topics of encyclopaedic interest; the Main Page is not for us, it's for our readers (the vast majority of Wikipedia's traffic), and the vast majority of them won't have any inclination, nor the ability, to do that. We already have links to the Introduction and the Help Pages, which is a much better path towards editing to follow. --Sam Blanning(talk) 17:56, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
We do want people to create new appropriate articles if they wish, or improve existing ones if that's what they wish.--Azer Red Si? 21:23, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
In addition to the de-emphasis of quantity and problematic nature of the proposed link, this exact wording was proposed and rejected during the recent main page redesign process. As I noted at the time, the phrase "and counting" is a figure of speech that would seem confusing or nonsensical to some people for whom English is not a primary language. Also, the "in English" wording was included to avoid falsely conveying that all of the Wikipedias combined contain only 6,896,992 articles. —David Levy 17:48, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Main page

This isn't really a big deal, but if you look on the side under navigation, the first link is to the "Main page" with lowercase p. The p is supposed to be capitalized, i.e. "Main Page". --75.20.219.75 17:49, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure if this is deliberate, but I suspect it might be - Wikipedia:Community Portal has the same mismatch between capitalisation in the title and on the sidebar. --Sam Blanning(talk) 17:57, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
This is, in fact, deliberate. (Also note that a Community portal link has existed on the main page since March.) Both Main Page and Wikipedia:Community Portal are inconsistent with our MoS-prescribed naming conventions and the titles of other project pages. We've retained the former for logistical reasons. I've proposed that the latter be changed. —David Levy 18:23, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The ultimate solution to vandalism

A while ago I read a news article about a revised Wikipedia editing system. In this system, edits made to pages do not appear immediately. They must be viewed and approved by an admin before actually replacing the current revision of the page. This is, if I'm not mistaken, already being tried on the German Wikipedia. I have been in approval of this ever since I saw it, and that "mutilated penis" incident has just made me all the more so. If this is implemented, vandalism as we know it will cease to exist and Wikipedia's potential as a functioning encyclopedia will increase a hundredfold. And in addition, there will be no more need for page protection, as any edits made will be reviewed before going into effect. Who's with me on this?--Azer Red Si? 21:20, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

One problem. There's only ~1050 admins on Wikipedia. We'd get backlogged so fast that this system would be pointless. Would you really want to wait an hour or two before your edit is actually processed? Nishkid64 21:31, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, that is a concern, but I'm beginning to think that that's the only way that Wikipedia will be able to achieve true credibility as an encyclopedia. Maybe it should start creating more admins, or maybe give certain users the right to shift revisions of pages while ommitting them other rights such as block rights.--Azer Red Si? 21:40, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I've suggested in the past the Wikipedia content presented to not logged in visitors might be made subject to a stability criterion, so that only versions that have persisted unaltered for at least 15 minutes be shown to visitors. In my plan, versions that are created and then reverted within 15 minutes need never be shown to the public at large. Admin edits could be made exempt from the criterion to avoid vandals trying to use it against us. Dragons flight 21:52, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
What "mutilated penis" incident are you talking about? There are penile disease pictures on Wikipedia but that is encyclopedic. --Ineffable3000 21:54, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The one that appeared on the Main Page earlier today. Again. Dragons flight, it's a good idea, but there would be problems. Example: article is vandalised, 15 minutes later the vandalised version becomes the displayed version, someone reads it, spots the vandalism and fixes it. But they're not an administrator, so the vandalism persists, visible to everyone, for another 15 minutes. The majority of vandalism is reverted by non-admins, and we don't have anywhere near enough of them to go chasing after edits that fixed vandalism but haven't been shown because they weren't made by an administrator. Having completely separate display and development versions of popular articles would be better, but at the rate MediaWiki development is currently going won't be with us for some time, if ever – Gurch 21:58, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

[edit conflict with Gurch]

So admins are the only users on Wikipedia who are exempt? There are hundreds of users who do just as much good if not more. Another solution, would be to, oh I don't know, stop letting IPs edit. They are the main vandals on this website. --SonicChao talk 21:59, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There have been just about 100 million edits made since 2002. That's what, 25 million edits a year on average? That's 68,000 edits a day. No way in hell are 1,000 editors going to slog through that 24/7. — ceejayoz talk 22:13, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe we could get bots to do it that flag edits with certain key words/text that are likely vandalism, and these suspicious edits could be reviewed by admins.--Azer Red Si? 22:19, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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