Talk:Stock character

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--200.163.21.214 02:13, 26 November 2005 (UTC)--200.163.21.214 02:13, 26 November 2005 (UTC)I don't think Hero and Villain are stock characters -- they're standard roles in a story, but that's a different phenomenon. Rather than roles in the story, the list of stock characters should list types of characters that saves authors descriptive work. Thus, a 'rake' is a stock character, but a hero is not. Hamlet is a stock character inasmuch as he is a revenger, but the fact that he's a hero just means that he's the protagonist/center-of-the-text. I've gone ahead and removed these entries for now, but the cut text is below if anyone wants to advocate for keeping them. -- Tom[reply]

Begin cut text:

End cut text.


  • I want to! (advocate for keeping them, I mean). I thorougly take your point and you're right in terms of role. However, I think there are stock characters here as well. If I understand you, you mean hero (role) who may be any of a variety of types (usually protagonist, sometimes not), in a variety of genres. I think there is also hero (stereotype) or (plot device) [and villain, similarly] who are stock characters. Like so many terms in the performing arts, these words are fluid (compare, e.g. ingenue (actress) and ingenue (role) and ingenue (stock character). The difference should be pointed out. Quill 05:58, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Well, I'm a bit skeptical. Maybe if the entry here makes the distinction clear on what a hero stock character is and how it differs from the role. -- Logotu 17:57, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Is the gunslinger universally recognized enough to be stock character yet?

Page formatting

I think the current list format is tedious to the eye. It's very difficult to discern between to subsequent entries, as the entry name is in the same font as the whole wall of text. I'd rather see the entry names, like The California Girl or The Twins, as nth level headings, not as plain text. Example:

This is the current formatting

Transient

This is what I'd like it to be

Transient

The Angst-ridden Youth

A young male character, usually handsome and virile, but conflicted, sullen, and at odds with the establishment. Epitomized by James Dean of Rebel Without a Cause and Holden Caulfield of The Catcher in the Rye. Anakin Skywalker is such a character before transforming to Dark Lord as Darth Vader. Another example is Squall Leonhart, from the video game Final Fantasy VIII.

The Avenger

A hot-blooded young man who has had a loved one (usually a fiancée or wife) cruelly murdered and/or raped and seeks his revenge outside the law. Batman, Laertes in Hamlet and Hamlet himself, as well as Amsterdam from the film Gangs of New York, are examples of Avengers. Eric from the film The Crow is another example. Marvel's Elektra is a female version of this character. Can often be the son of a Rake (see below).

I don't mind lists in general, but this page has way too many entries to be a comfortable read. --130.232.206.95 07:45, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Rake entry

"Often portrayed as a heavy drinker or gambler. Also known as a rake-hell."

I recall hearing the term "rake heel." Does anyone else remember this? If it is the correct term, the article should be changed.


I.P. spread all over the place

"In the United States, courts have determined that copyright protection can not be extended to the characteristics of stock characters in a story, whether it be a book, play, or film. Nichols v. Universal Pictures Corporation, 45 F.2d 119 (2d Cir. 1930)."

That's an odd thing to have at the top, methinks. CAD6DEE2E8DAD95A 16:09, 2005 May 26 (UTC)

More Characters

Check the article List of stereotypical characters in the world of drama for more stock characters. Peter S. 12:37, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The problem is that the two ideas have become confused. Classic stock characters (the sidekick) are NOT merely modern stereotypes (Afro-American saying 'yo!' alot) but the latter have crept into this article. Quill 23:07, 21 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]


Question: What is the difference between "The Warning" and "a Cassandra?" Isn't Cassandra the ur-Warning, or did I misunderstand something?

Fearless Leader

Is there any reason the Fearless leader isn't on here? If there's none of these categories he [it] fits in, it should be added.

On a related note, shouldn't there also be a listing for the Military Man, the stern authoritarian who ignores casualties or human compassion for the cause of victory, like Buck Turdigson in Dr. Strangelove (and perhaps, to a greater extent, Scott's depiction of Patton) or the Pogue Colonel in Full Metal Jacket? --YoungFreud 00:34, 18 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Merge

Discussion moved to a single place: Talk:List of stereotypical characters in the world of drama. mikka (t) 21:41, 8 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Whiz kid/nerd

"# The California Girl, a blonde-haired, blue-eyed girl who only ate health food and loved the environment more than anything else.

  1. The nerd who was a total genius, wore geeky clothes, and was the teacher's pet.
  2. The Clumsy Hero. a good meaning person, but usually accidently destroys friend and foe alike. ie. Coop of Megas XLR"

I don't think "The nerd who was a total genius ... pet" really belongs as a separate category; after all, under Whiz kid, it says "Male whiz kids are often referred to as "geeks" or "nerds" by other characters, while their female counterparts are typically called "know-it-alls." Ergo, I don't think that that would belong as a separate category. The other two I don't really know about.

Shouldn't Mad Scientist and Evil Genius be merged? Evil Genius could be given as a variant villainous version of the Mad Scientist.

--207.192.229.226 01:57, 3 October 2005 (UTC) ; I forgot to add my signature earlier.[reply]

Cutting

Seeing "The California Girl" shows up reminds me -- I'd really like to cut back on this list. Having a generic list of "Stock characters" is not really useful, as it can grow at an incredible rate. The idea of the list at first had been to provide a few examples of what a stock character could be, not to provide an exhaustive list. There are currently several other more exhaustive lists of characters in specific genres -- I think it makes sense to move items to those lists or create new lists (e.g. "Stock characters in Cinema") but to leave this page as a discussion of the concept of stock characters in general with a *brief* (3-4 members) list left only as an example. Tom

If this is judged desirable, the fairest solution would appear to be to spin off the list of stock characters into a new article, list of stock characters. Leaving just a few of them presents the problem of which ones are chosen to be representative, and may represent the worst possible outcome. The feeling of a substantial minority of users is hostile to articles that are lists of anything, and prefers to merge any lists within articles about the concept illustrated by the list — the status quo here. I am indifferent one way or another, and will cheerfully adapt to whatever consensus preferred. I do think the text should go into a bit more detail about how stock characters are used in general, and relate them to genre conventions. Smerdis of Tlön 14:13, 18 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
My experience of pop-culture articles like this, where everyone's trying to cram in their favourite example, is that a core article with a spun-off list article is the best way to preserve everyone's sanity, and to limit an information overload in one article. Just my 2c. RMoloney 10:21, 19 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I'm inclined to agree. My immediate reaction on seeing "California Girl" was to respond "Hey, there's a bit of difference between California Girl and Ms. Natural..." and you can see where that would go. Also, I'm interested in the slight difference between stock characters in Euro vs. Asian portrayals, say, in classical wuxia.--Bluejay Young 20:47, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pairings: Overheard in a chat

"The Odd Couple (strong silent hero with free-spirited buddy; snarky individualist hero with buddy who plays by the rules). Or the Mentor and the Student. The Brothers In Arms. The Adversaries. The Sworn Enemies. The Loner, the Geek, the Mild Mannered Reporter." Yeah! Pairings. --Bluejay Young 01:00, 5 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Isaac?

Is Black Tapestries webcomics (and their seemingly ubiquitous character Isaac) really notable here? Seems like an attempt at viral marketing to me. Did cause quite a shock though.--Uberisaac 17:58, 26 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Good call! Black Tapestries is apparently not notable enough for anyone to have written a page on it yet, nor for it to have garnered any mention on webcomics or on list of webcomics. Isaac does seem to fit a surprising number of descriptions on this page. In fact, searching the page thoroughly, I've found six stock characters, all of which Isaac somehow represents, and I'm just not buying it. I hereby call shenanigans on 81.156.94.22. Explain how one character can be six stock characters, or I (humbly) suggest we start deleting your additions.
Feeeshboy 03:12, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Split Page up?

This page is getting quite long, and I feel that it does not do justice to the relationship between stock characters and genre. I suggest splitting off new pages, such as Stock Characters in Science Fiction, Stock Characters in Westerns, etc. That way, we could trim down the interminably growing list of examples of stock characters at the bottom of this page (as there really is no end to the examples that could be cited). Any thoughts? Feeeshboy 04:10, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that the article is definitely too long. The history section on that article is also awkward to read. I suggest trimming down the history a little bit and splitting up the list of stock characters under "drama," "comedy,", and "romance" categories with only one or two examples for each listed character. Anyone agree? I'd be glad to be the one to do it. Breed Zona 01:06, 19 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The history is more appropriate than the list. Perhaps we should split off a "List of stock characters." Or perhaps we should give them their own articles and then refer the reader to the Category of stock characters.Goldfritha 01:34, 19 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that the history is far more pertinent than the rest of this page. Should we go for one list, or break it up in some way? I'd still ideally like to break it up by genre to both better show the connection between genres and stock characters and avoid just having another overlong page. My concern is that this is going to be entirely original research. Either way, we should do something soon, because this is getting ridiculous when someone is replacing characters from major motion pictures with characters from (various incarnations of) Final Fantasy. Wikipedia is not a soapbox to vote for your favorite book/movie/webcomic/video game, or an experiment in democracy/anarchy. I don't want to say that my examples are better than anyone else's, but this page needs a new format fast before it gets buried in more and more obscure and unnecessary examples. For now, I don't think there's any reason that a type of stock character should require more than three or four examples. Feeeshboy 03:23, 19 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I've just done some revision on the Heroes section of the stock characters' list. Even with just that, I was taken aback by the amount of references and "filler" in there. I deleted all the references to "Watership Down," keeping only the examples that would be recognized the most, although I didn't delete any listed stock characters. The history part is informative for the most part, and it needs just a little cleaning up.

I agree with Feeeshboy that the history section should be kept on the main article and that the list of stock characters should be split up in genres before this article gets too unwieldy. Anybody care to revise the other character sections? (looks around hopefully) I'll probably split up the page tomorrow, and see how that helps. Breed Zona 04:35, 19 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I've just done a MAJOR splitting up of the list into various lists, and also reduced each character's references to only two or three at a time; the links are near the bottom of the page. I know that I have not added the typical Category links to the bottom of these pages. Could somebody please do this? Breed Zona 17:50, 19 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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