Talk:Bill Haley

I find DoB listed as 6 July 1924. Where does the listed date come from?--(talk)BozMo 20:59, 14 May 2004 (UTC)

The 1924 birthdate is erroneous. I know his son and can confirm that Haley was born in 1925. 23skidoo 17:54, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Haley's birthday and so on

Bill was born on July 6, 1925 in Highland Park, Detroit, MI...He died completely fool (paranoid) and of a heart attack back on February 9, 1981 in Harlingen, Texas (not too far from the Mexican border). At that time he sold an estimated 60 million records in his seminal r'n'r career... Please have a look at the French page with almost full discography Template:Encours Stephan Koenig 10:35, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Some label shots and photos are already taken in Commons :-) as "CC-NC" and "CC-BY" Stephan Koenig 10:48, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Can you provide a link to the French page? 23skidoo 15:09, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Saving Bill Haley

Please do not move any of the following information into the article. It has been placed here for vetting and discussion and isn't ready to be included. 23skidoo 17:39, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

The Jodimars Connection "Sound Superb"

When Bill Haley left in November 1955 the band continued as The Jodimars and played together until January 1957. The Jodimars are best known for their hit single "Well now dig this" / "Let's All Rock Together".

• completely untrue!!!: "See you later, alligator" was recorded on Dec.12, 1955

So, what about the DECCA Sessions in 1956, 1957,1958, 1959??? Stephan KŒNIG 16:14, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

there were no DECCA sessions back in 1960 seeing he signed to brand new WB Records label...Stephan KŒNIG 09:57, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

• Rattle my bones: o.v. as "Open the door boogie" by Nappy Brown who could have recorded it in 1951! Issued on Savoy in 1956...And certainly nothing to see with "Open the door Richard" by Louis Jordan about 10 years before.
• Just listen to both tunes and there is nothing to say than more. Except "re-written" by James E. "Jimmy De Knight" Myers

My reply

Untrue, dear: Bill Haley never left his Comets. The Jodimars were known as "of the 1955 "refugees" Haley's Comets". Then The Jodimars thought of making much money without him but never charted with their own songs... and disbanded in 1958 ... Stephan KŒNIG 16:12, 1 February 2006 (UTC) (just a small correction) S.K.

Why Chris did not tell you the same things like me? I'm gonna send him an e-mail including 3 Bill's songs issued in 2001 on an "unknown" German compilation (15 CD's). Maybe it will be better to write them on his user page...

You put the original text in there. Just change the text and create a wonderful page. You are the expert on Bill Haley Dr Debug (Talk) 16:38, 1 February 2006 (UTC) Expert? Maybe :-)

:I do not consider myself as an expert but I want to re-establish the truth as true as possible... Stephan KŒNIG However, it's a great compliment..And what for Chris Gardner and Terry Gordon? Stephan KŒNIG 14:59, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi dear, what do you want me to change? Stephan KŒNIG 16:01, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Just to set the record straight, I am friends with all the members of the Jodimars. They are NOT considered "refugees" from the Comets. After Rock Around the Clock became a hit, Marshall, Joey and Dick asked for a raise as they were being paid a weekly salary (as opposed to Johnny Grande and Billy Williamson, who were equal partners with Haley). When they were refused, they (on advice from Teresa Brewer, among others) quit the band and started their own group which was a modest success and become one of the first rock and roll bands to take up residence in Las Vegas. The group lasted until 1958. And all three members have been involved with the Original Comets reunion since 1987. See Jodimars. 23skidoo 17:34, 1 February 2006 (UTC). If they said so, what can I say than more? Hugh McCallum, president of the int'l Bill Haley's fan club wrote The Jodimars were refugees!!! I knew about the last sentence: it's quite correct...Did The Jodimars see the "new" pages talking about them?  :-) Stephan KŒNIG 18:00, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Bill_Haley_-_mai_1974_-_Li%C3%A8ge_-_Belgique.jpg Stephan KŒNIG 00:58, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

• /media/wikipedia/fr/6/6d/Bill_Haley_-_mai_1974_-_Li%C3%A8ge_-_Belgique.jpg Stephan KŒNIG 12:27, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

do they prefer "spin-off band"? Stephan KŒNIG 11:19, 8 February 2006 (UTC). This was the true truth: I talked with Bill Haley more than 30 years ago in Liège (just a few minutes).

I told him what had happened with these 3 young men: Haley (speaking to me) said: the real truth was "lotta thanks with a kick off at their derrieres" but did not tell me more... Stephan KŒNIG 21:00, 8 February 2006 (UTC) :I sware it's not a joke: this could be confirmed by a very good friend of mine (aged 65 ex- policeman (colonel) who still knows US and UK R'N'R like the back of his hand...Hubert Delmotte (aka Alan D. More [songwriter for a.o. The Magic Platters since 1986, Nancy Holloway, Charlie Gracie, Freddie Fingers Lee...) was also at that concert in Liège back in May 1974. 2 photos are available in Commons. Stephan KŒNIG 10:33, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

About the Comets' reunion

If Joey, Dick and Marshall reformed the Comets with other well known guys including Francis Beecher and Johnny Grande that's because they implicity recognized Bill Haley and his/the Comets' supremacy to be the only first r'n'r band in the world. :-). If you are friends with them, you're a lucky man (ELP). I wish I would have met them only one time/once :-) Stephan KŒNIG 00:14, 2 February 2006 (UTC) who goes to bed seeing he is a little bit tired. :-)

They frequently tour Europe so if you're in France they might play near you eventually. 23skidoo 13:09, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

When will they play in France and where?

Don't have much time today to do other works about Haley...See you tomorrow...And still nice to hear from you. Stephen Stephan KŒNIG 09:55, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Boogie woogie of the 40's is really funny, he he :-) S.K.

Band members

The material that was in this section has been moved to Talk:Jodimars. 23skidoo 13:10, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Homage

Once there was a time...Bill Haley started it all. His million-seller, "Shake, Rattle And Roll" hitted the world of Popular Music in the 50's, and he followed with a succession of smash hit Rock'n'Roll numbers including the evergreen "Rock Around The Clock". Then followed others like "Rip It Up", "See You Later, Alligator" and "Razzle-Dazzle" among others. For a decade Bill was "Mr. Rock'n'Roll", and even now, more than 50 years after the first hit topped the summum of the int'l charts, his name and his personality are tops in the Rock scene. Bill had a good start: he came from a musical family in Michigan and, after flirting with Western music during his early teens, he instinctively felt that the lively, exciting Rock'n'Roll music was here to stay. Rock'n'Roll Is Here To Stay, indeed! Rock'n'Roll has had as great an impact on Popular Music as had Jazz some three or four decades earlier. And what about the current Rock revival in the early 70's and 80's which beared witness to the powerful influence generated by Bill Haley on the Pop world? To assess Bill's hits over and over the years was a Herculean work to me, for he had so many; but to mention "R'n'R" is to conjure up instantly the name of Bill Haley. He was one of the immortals of the "Pop" scene; and 25 years later, he is still alive in our minds. Bill Haley will remain the KING of rock'n'roll: ain't that rockin' & rollin' so funny? Ha ha ha... and best wishes to his eldest son John William born in December 1950 and Sharyn Ann too. Dr.DeBug, and Stephan "Juke Box Cannon Ball" Koenig.

Hi Stephan, Chris Gardner here. I really must take exception to the way in which you are debunking my research into whether or not Haley appeared on the Downhomers recordings on the Vogue Records label. If you would kindly read what I wrote in the book which accompanies the Bear Family boxed set of pre-Decca recordings you might realise that I have come to this conclusion by carefully weighing up and comparing the available facts. I may have got it wrong, sure, but I would be interested to know why you seem so confident of your "facts". Those of us who choose to chronicle the past and are either published or choose "self publication" through the internet have a responsibility to separate fact from fiction. I don't see much of that in what you have written above.

Of course, "self-publication". Nevertheless, Skokiaan"/"Skokiana"/"Sikokiyana"/"Mahewu" was too hard to find much more than two finger claps. Maybe, one day at a time, I'll provide the source where I found its real origin. BTW, if I don't talk about the Down Homers in my homage:

it's because it is not the subject. Realize?

Can you tell me more of my "facts"? And one word about the Mariachis Luis Sanchez and Diego Romero: I think that somebody (I don't know who it was) laughed at your face seeing the said Sanchez and Romero are still completely unknown...There is snake in the grass seeing, we, in Belgium, knew about the Mariachis (Gaspar) Vargas 3rd Generation and the Villa(s) brothers from San Fernando...And what about the singers of the Trio Los Panchos? Anyway, keep cool...

Can I also remind you that content posted here must not violate any copyright and must be verifiable?

No problem: I'm not a trouble-maker nor a steeler.

Anyway, here's my version:-

Early in 1946, Bill Haley joined the Downhomers, then based in Radio Station WOWO in Fort Wayne, Indiana, replacing their yodelling lead singer, Kenny Roberts (billed as the World's fastest yodeller). The exact chronology, however, is confused. Based on the reminiscences of those involved, the dates do not make a lot of sense, and the conventional widsom at one time was that Bill's first commercial recordings were the 4 tracks by the Downhomers which were issued on Vogue picture discs and recorded in early 1946. However, the more likely story is as follows.

Do you mean The Down Homers? (on 78 rpm recs)

The Downhomers were first hired by WOWO in August 1944, appearing in daily radio shows and on Saturday nights at the Hoosier Hop Barn Dance which was broadcast on the NBC network. Kenny Roberts was drafted into the U.S. Navy in October 1944, when he turned 18 (he was born 18th October 1926). With the War over, Kenny returned to The Downhomers, still at WOWO, in November 1945. In January, they recorded 5 tracks (1 unissued) for Vogue Records. Vogue, owned by Tom Saffady, had pioneered a process whereby they could produce a colourful 78rpm picture disc, and they released 2 such discs of the Downhomers. For many years it had been suggested that Bill Haley had appeared on these recordings. Kenny Roberts himself recently issued a flat denial, and it appears that he actually stayed with the band until April 1946 at which point the Downhomers moved to WTIC in Hartford, Connecticut. The earliest verifiable Bill Haley recordings we have in this boxed set come from shortly after this, because reference is made in the introduction to the recording of Baby, I Found Out All About You for Vogue "not too long ago".

It doesn't matter...

Whilst the Downhomers were recording for Vogue it is likely that Bill was actually with another band, the Range Drifters, as 'Billboard' reported on 2nd February 1946, "Slim McCarthy, formerly manager of the Oregon Rangers for three years, now has charge of the Range Drifters. Group is now making personal appearance tours exclusively for the WLS Artists' Bureau. Drifters has such fine folk artists as Bill Haley, Wayne Wright and Tiny Grasso. Slim has made many network appearances and appeared on the Hoosier Hop at WOWO, Fort Wayne, Indiana."

The Texas Range Drifters, to become...

In the 11th May 1946 issue of 'Billboard' Bill is reported as being with the Downhomers: "The Down Homers are now on WTIC Hartford Connecticut. A cowboy quintet, they broadcast daily, Monday thru Friday, at 5:30am for early morning listeners to the New England Regional Network. Outfit is headed jointly by Guy Campbell, emcee and violinist, and Shorty Cook, hawaiian guitarist. The quintet includes Shorty and Guy; Lloyd Cornell, bass singer, fiddler and yodeler, Bill Haley, singer and yodeler, and Bob Mason, the world's tallest cowboy, singer and guitarist. They came to New England from WOWO, Fort Wayne, Indiana."

New England: later Massachusetts?(The lights went out in)

The line-up described above is the one which appears in the set of Downhomers radio recordings included in this boxed set. Interestingly, this radio show follows the identical set list as one by the Sons of the Pioneers, who were obviously a big influence on the Downhomers. It is likely that it was around this time that Bill was crowned 'Indiana State Yodelling Champion', something which he later claimed, but has been impossible to substantiate with corroborative evidence. It is not known how long Bill stayed with the Downhomers, but he does not appear in another radio show by the band, which has survived, which can be pinpointed to 27th November 1946. The line-up then is Shorty Cook, Rusty Rogers, Slim Cox, Guy Campbell and Hank Gunder.

Anything about Radio Park and Cousin Lee (aka Arlee Ellsworth) , Pee Wee Miller, db bass player?

--Chris Gardner 20:45, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

• I don't violate anything and sure I don't debunk anything. It's quite clear. I wrote about 2 hours ago but got an fake ADSL failure at the time. Sorry. Sure I'm not a destroyer and certainly not a swindler! Hope you saw my response at the time...

Kind regards, Stephan

• Anyway, Chris, you think what you want to and probably you're right with the Down Homers' saga and history. I was not able to read your book seeing I did not buy the CDs at the time. I would like to know something: do you own all the discs you listed? And for the last time, I suppose, [however I deleted the Vogue 78 rpm recs] when Bill deceased Vogue claimed he was at those sessions...I'm gonna cry over my shoulder and write myself a letter of suicide. How old were you? At that time I was 28 and archiving since at least for 9 years (so I began to archive on r'n'r "Lindy-Hop" and rockabilly since 1972. See you later, alligator. Stephan KŒNIG 16:49, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
• An LP Record was issued in France in 1979 and almost correct with the spellings except "Around" and ..."To You".
• Anyway, Chris, keep cool. Stephen Stephan KŒNIG 23:02, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Shake, rattle and roll...bis

Sorry. Delete the info right quick BUT in fact it's the o.v. of Rattle my bones by The Jodimars. "OPEN THE DOOR BOOGIE" by NAPPY BROWN !!! in 1951!!! I'm gonna listen to The Jodimars' tune. I'm almost sure Big Joe Turner turned it in his advantage. Very strange. I'm gonna see my cop friend who can write the solfeggio and listen once again to both songs and compare each one and tell you the result asap. Stephan KŒNIG 01:09, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Both Rattle My Bones and Shake Rattle and Roll were written by the same man - Charles Calhoun (a.k.a. Jessie Stone). Rattle My Bones was written as a follow-up to SRR and was also somehow connected with James Myers. 23skidoo 17:37, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

No problem, dear: I knew about it, anyway. Nevertheless, Rattle my bones IS "Open the door boogie" revisited, originally by Nappy Brown. Okay? :-) I'm gonna watch the TV...Stephan KŒNIG 19:44, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I thought I went to see him this afternoon but his wife got the flu and is at the hospital. Stephan KŒNIG 19:47, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

About the Mariachi musicians...

The Mariachis were travelling musicians (trumpets, violins, harps) and singers such as the Trio Los Panchos including Johnny Albino (1st voice), Chucho Navarro (2nd voice) and, Alfredo Gil ("requintos"=back-up vocal)[1958-1968] who recorded - but not credited - with Carrie Grant and The Grandeurs "Mish Mash" and sang - still not credited - on "Jealous Heart" which was recorded back in 1967. The most famous Mariachis trumpeters and violinists were the Vargas: Pedro Vargas de Tecalitlán, Silvestre Vargas de Tecalitlán, Miguel Martinez [Florida Twist, Al compás del reloj (twist) [not RATC], Caravan/a Twist a.k.a. Cip A Vanna] Juan Guerrero-Patrulla, Jose Luis Rodriguez of the (Gaspar) Mariachi VARGAS de Tecalitlán 3rd Generation. Stephan KŒNIG 16:21, 4 March 2006 (UTC) + Stephan KŒNIG 18:35, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

The only Mariachi (*) musicians I know of who worked with Haley were Los Trios Panchos, but not on Orfeon, and a couple of trumpet players on some of the Orefon tracks. I cannot hear a violin on "Cielito Lindo". Perhaps you should listen to it yourself?

On Dimsa, then? I don't have this tune on any 45 rpm record nor CD, pure de papas. Then, "Trios" means 3 guys. [trio]

No doubt, if there were "Mariachis" playing in The 4 Aces Of Western Swing? (the latter words reprooduced quite to the indentical C.G.'s version). So coming from Mexico to Philadelphia??? Pfff... Stephan KŒNIG 18:25, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

I just asked you if you knew something about Silvestre Vargas de Tecalitlán "on violin" but hadn't the time to change "on violon" (maybe on trumpet?) seeing I was watching the TV.

I just listened a few minutes ago (TV out) to 3 Discos Orfeon tunes recorded in 09/1961 with uncredited Mariachi Silvestre Vargas de Tecalitlán (trumpet? [no: violin and vocals])[in fact, I think it is Pedro Vargas de Tecalitlán on "Al compás del reloj" [Bill Haley y Los Cometas](listed in US Wiki with its reference), 1961 and El quelite (to be clear: feat. uncredited Mariachi Silvestre Vargas, trumpet? but I'm not sure at all seeing Silvestre played violin and recorded himself Cielito Lindo) issued in 1963 on Discos Orfeon 45-1324 backed with: and, what about Adios Marquita Linda? I don't understand any violin nor trumpet. I did not find any connection between Bill - Luis Sanchez - Diego Romero: nothing. At one time, here in Belgium (a small country of Western Europe but bigger than San Marino next to Italy), about more than...in fact, when I was 20 (1972). It was known that some of the members of the famous "Gaspar Vargas 3rd Generation" accompanied Bill on some Orfeon tracks. Bill had more popularity in Europe than in the States. Okay? :-)Correct? Voila, that's all I can say right now. I'm still looking for other incredible information. As for me, I do understand Spanish, [Italian, French, English/American: everyday usage]; Dutch, German and Spanish: I do pay attention when someone is speaking to me but I can read them seeig Spanish is a Latin language and I studied Dutch and German at the High School (including Latin and ancient Greek). I do speak Belgian too :-) See you later. S.JBCB.K.

Sure you meant "TRIO LOS PANCHOS" including Johnny Albino (1st voice); Chucho Navarro (2nd voice) and Alfredo Gil (back-up vcl) (1958-1968). So, they are not trumpeters at all...I'm gonna watch the TV again... Stephan KŒNIG 22:36, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Chris Gardner sent me two e-mails a few minutes ago: I think he's moanin'. I got some information he don't hold yet and he doesn't agree with Los Trio Panchos. He told me he was wasting his time... At least, they sang on Mish mash and Jealous heart. Correct?  :-) And, of course, any violin can be heard on Cielito Lindo and Adios Marquita Linda and no trumpets too. S.

Everything's turning on fire :-)

(*)BTW, did you ever have asked yourself/wonder what Mariachis were? In fact, travelling singers and musicians. Stephan KŒNIG 00:13, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

BTW, "travelling" means "travelling" and surely not sedentary. Stephan KŒNIG 23:47, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

touring Latin America and Mexico...

...I think you might have to write "Latin America and Mexico in the 60's and, in Europe, in the 50's, 60's, 70's and maybe in 1980 [he signed a contract to come back in Belgium and probably in Liège). (Great Britain, France, Belgium, Germany, Sweden, Holland...). It is out of question to change anything in YOUR text.  :-) ~Juke Box Cannon Ball~ :-)

Read the Comets article. I mention this there. 23skidoo 18:29, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

OK. Fine. Stephan KŒNIG 21:55, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Riviera...

...was written by Riccardo Martinelli. I think he was Giovanni Martinelli's sun but, pure de papas, I don't find anything: no connection as for example "bill haley - riccardo martinelli". Stephan KŒNIG

1954??? Comet : Morgan Shumaker...

Is there anybody to listen to my story...Does anybody know something about that drummer? Stephan KŒNIG 12:23, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Morgan Shumaker never played drums with the Comets during the 1950s. He only worked with Al Rappa's band a few years ago. The only 1954 drummers were Dick Richards, Billy Gussak and possibly Panama Francis. 23skidoo 13:43, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

== about Bill Haley's Candy Kisses ==

Hi dear! Could you ask if Bill's eldest son is quite sure Bill recorded the o.v. of the said song? My friends from coverinfo.de had already written in their database for a long time that George Morgan firstly recorded it. I don't know what to think of it. Lotta thanks. Stephan KŒNIG 13:30, 24 February 2006 (UTC) In fact, George Morgan was #1 in the Country charts on 30th/04/1949 and the song crossed over #2 in the POP charts. Bill recorded it on 2d.04.1949 (without charting with it) then there are 2 solutions:

• 1 Morgan recorded the song a few days before Bill and it is quite unknown (I think at the time, it was quite impossible to record a song and see it in a chart the same month);
• 2 the date of Bill's recording of it may be wrong/fake [2nd.04.1948?]. However, the German specialists at Hydra's Records wrote this date in the booklet and I was able to see at Rocking Country Style that Terry Gordon noted as follows "Bb c&w rev. 1949/Mar.19". Very strange... Stephan KŒNIG 13:57, 24 February 2006 (UTC) S.K. 5.03.06

Where on earth are you getting the idea that Jack Haley has ever claimed his father recorded the first version of Candy Kisses? Source, please. 23skidoo 16:08, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

I never said Mr. Haley claimed Candy Kisses was an original recording tune...But this song is known as "Bill Haley's 1948 song"...I saw the german page passed away... Stephan KŒNIG 20:07, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Maybe there's a translation issue or the German webpage got it wrong. Can you post the link to the page in question? (you might have already done so elsewhere, but it would be helpful to include it with this discussion.) Thanks. 23skidoo 22:57, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

When Bill re-recorded Candy Kisses, the Englishmen or the Frenchmen (who still make amalgams of all kinds) wrote it was "HIS 1948 song" and that's all. Anywhere. You did not understand what I wanted to say: will try to find this...I'll come back in 30 minutes.Stephan KŒNIG 17:27, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

See you later alligator in Spanish?

Bill Haley never recorded it in Spanish. Hasta luego cocodrillo is only a translation...81.243.168.181 19:17, 28 March 2006 (UTC)S.K.

This is true. I checked the article but there's no mention of him recording it in Spanish. He did record a number of other songs in Spanish between 1961-66 but when it came to re-recording his major hits, he stuck to English (an exception being Skinny Minnie which included both Spanish and English). 23skidoo 20:54, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Bill Haley: Ambassador 98 100, LP "RARETIES" (1979)...

...was issued in MALAYSIA and available in UK & Europe (at least in Belgium) at the time...Stephan Koenig Not as "rarities"...I bought this LP at that moment.

The missing Cowboy Records - 1949...

Cotton haired girl (Haley/howard)/Wreck on the highway (Dorsey Dixon [o.v. as by The Dixon Brothers (Dorsey & Howard) for RCA/Bluebird, 1938/My mom heard me crying (B. Haley)/Rovin' eyes [originally issued] (songwriter: Menaker)/Candy and women (B. Haley/Malle) and A yodeller's lullaby (Stuart)... Info contributed by the Belgian popes on Bill Haley: André Deprez, Alain Darmor and Stephan Koenig.