Talk:Jūnihitoe
Possible changes to the entry
In the paragraph before the last (the one describing the story of the man who wanted to keep his lady from escaping him by making her wear the robes), I think a good point to mention would be that this is not just one specific case, but a broad international tradition, to restrict women through the use of their clothing.
I will make the appropriate change. If any one has any reservations, feel free to discuss them. Silentium 09:32, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
- Yes, but where else have you heard of such cases? And this dress was not designed to restrict women, therefore this information would be purely speculative unless there really was a general pattern. This is not verified though. Gryffindor 12:14, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
It's sufficient enough to look at world history. Anything from the Burka, to these kimonos; corsets and skirts, jewelry (which is heavy) and lotus feet in china (just to name a few off the top of my head) - all clothes which restrict movement and were used as yet another mean to control women. Silentium 09:32, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
- Hm, I think you need to post your thoughts in a more general forum about women's clothes and dress, because a burka has nothing to do with a kimono. Nobody forces anyone to wear a kimono, I know women who like skirts and don't feel restricted by them. The junihitoe was not designed to restrict women in their movement. There are many men's clothings as well that were very impractical but it was just the fashion at that time. Gryffindor 17:04, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
Okay, I think I'll go one by one here:
I concur, and I indeed plan to do this.
Rather, it does. You asked for a pattern, and I gave you one. The connection between them is that they are both traditional restictive women's clothing.
- "Nobody forces anyone to wear a kimono"
I am not all that lored in Japanese culture, and therefore I don't know whether or not women were punished for not wearing them. However - I doubt that women were allowed to wear men's clothing, and am rather sure that even if there wasn't a punishment in law, severe social sanctions were used on a woman who wanted to do such a thing. Honestly, I don't think anyone would willingly wear a 20kg outfit daily, or even at all, without some heavy social pressure.
- "I know women who like skirts and don't feel restricted by them."
Indeed, I am one of them. However, it is completely clear to anyone who has ever worn a skirt (and here I am speaking only of long ones) that movement is more difficult wearing them than wearing pants. Also - the fact that many women do it doesn't mean it's not oppressive. Consesual oppression has always been one of the attributes of the oppression towards women.
- "There are many men's clothings as well that were very impractical but it was just the fashion at that time."
In any case, even if men's clothes were restrictive, they were always less so than women's.