Wikipedia:Village pump archive 2004-09-26

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Summarised sections

This is a list of discussions that have been summarised and moved to an appropriate place. This list gets deleted occasionally to make room for newer entries.

See Wikipedia:Village pump/May 2004 archive 2.

MediaWiki 1.3

Many wikis are being converted to MediaWiki 1.3 today. The log of the process shows they are being converted alphabetically, and it is currently up to da:, so expect some changes here on en soon. Further details can be seen at m:MediaWiki roadmap. Please report bugs at m:MediaWiki 1.3 comments and bug reports. Angela. 10:25, May 28, 2004 (UTC)

Update: Because converting the English Wikipedia may require a few hours of downtime, it will be delayed until off-peak time tonight (UTC). Angela. 12:01, May 28, 2004 (UTC)
Given that, as you point out below, "There are still quite a few bugs being ironed out.", is this really a good idea? I mean, why not just pause with the ones already rolled out and use them as beta testers before rolling out a more stable version for everyone else? Or is there some strange sense of "fairness" here - "why should some languages have to suffer the bugs and not others?"? - IMSoP 22:48, 28 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

international english wiki

I might have missed it, but i have been looking for a discussion about an international wiki. The point is that the current english wiki is in my experience culturally bound to mainly the US and the UK. When i read the en-wiki, i sometimes meet typical us-views and issues, and i feel that i should not interfere with my dutch background - i probably don't understand the culturally bound subtilities, although i do understand the language. Let's face it: objectivity means in fact inter-subjectivity and the same text can sound objective for one culture and very subjective for another. Also there sometimes are problems with international linking: the definition of terms in different cultures is not precisely the same, causing trouble with international linking of adjacent subjects Am i the only one who feels the need of a real international wiki? The "simple english" is no option, it is there for another purpose. --Taka 13:36, 28 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

The English language is spoken as a first-language by primarily the US and the UK (and former colonies...!), so their citizens contribute most, and any English language Wikipedia is likely to suffer a bias in favour of those cultures. Any skewed writing should, in theory, be temporary, because Wikipedia has a policy on avoiding bias. If you find an article to be "subjective", it's likely that it is not yet written from a Neutral Point Of View (NPOV) and needs work to become so. Your contributions to these articles would be much appreciated in fixing things, especially because you are not from a US/UK background, and just pointing out cultural bias would be helpful. — Matt 14:09, 28 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]
I'd agree with Matt. As I understand it, the English Wikipedia is intended to be an international English Wikipedia. Any issues of cultural bias that exist on this English Wikipedia will also exist on any other. Unless, for example, we were to start a Dutch English Wikipedia. Instead, please help us to create an English Wikipedia that is more international. -Rholton 14:29, 28 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]
About the difficulty of international linking--that can actually be a good learning experience (see Talk:Comic book). I agree, and I'll admit that my presence probably makes things worse, just because I mainly know about U.S. topics--that's why we need people like you. This is not the USpedia. Meelar 14:32, 28 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]
All we can do is make sure there are as many non-Americans as possible in the project. Chameleon 14:38, 28 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]
I have the feeling that a significant portion of the wikipedians in the english wikipedia are not from the US or UK. My guess would be around 30%, and while US-bias may be a problem sometimes, I don't think it's a big issue. -- Chris 73 | Talk 14:45, 28 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the responses. I will consider the English wiki to be international. The point is that I could not find anything about it. But the Talk:Comic book discussion is a really good example of how things (apparently) are meant. --Taka 15:10, 28 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

There's some mention of systematic bias — including cultural — here: Wikipedia:Replies_to_common_objections#Systemic_bias — Matt 15:20, 28 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Artificial language Wikipedias?

There have been discussions lately on Wikipedia-l and Wikitech-l as to whether we should have wikipedias for artificial languages, such as Klingon and Toki Pona:

There are other scattered discussions as well.

It seems to me that this subject should have input from the wider community. Have at it! -Rholton 14:52, 28 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

This is relevant cross-project, so I have moved the discussion to Meta. Please participate at m:Artificial languages if you have any opinion on whether Toki Pona should be scrapped or Klingon brought back. Angela. 19:20, May 28, 2004 (UTC)

Redirect-with-comment?

It was proposed on VfD that the page on Heck should be made a redirect, either to Hell or Euphemism. The problem I have is that neither of these pages (as of this writing!) actually say anything about the word heck. That is, a user entering heck would have the odd experience of being directed to a page that does not discuss the entry word and does not explain why.

Should there be (is there already?) a form of redirect that would allow for inclusion of a comment, so that entering "Heck" could bring up a page with the notice

(Redirected from Heck, a euphemism for Hell)

rather than merely

(Redirected from Heck)? Dpbsmith

16:20, 28 May 2004 (UTC)


Doesn't sound useful to me. Only makes things complicated because text should be assigned to a page and not appear somewhere else. That would be confusing. If something like this is really needed, as in this example, it merits IMHO a on-line article without stub notice, e.g. "Heck is a euphemism for hell, q.v." Sanders muc 16:25, 28 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]
On German Wikipedia there was a lengthy discussion about the extension of redirect syntax with comments (something like #redirect[[To|why]], which could be helpful to distinguish between spelling variants, old terms, redirects-for-common-typos etc. So the implementation of an Redirect-with-comment feature would be a good thing. -- till we ☼☽ | Talk 18:57, 28 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]
I seem to remember Anthony DiPierro implementing a proof-of-concept patch to do this and discussing it here a couple of months ago. I'd try and find the discussion, but I honestly don't understand the archiving system on the pump any more. I seem to remember there was general agreement that it could be useful if implemented (and used) well; AFAIK it was never actually submitted to "The Developers" though.
IIRC, it was of the form "#REDIRECT [[Hell|Heck]] is a [[euphemism]] for hell" or something. (OK, I can't R.C., but that's the general flavour of it.) - IMSoP 22:34, 28 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, nothing like following a few of your own links: User:Anthony DiPierro/Redirect diff, Wikipedia:Ignored feature requests#Redirection messages - IMSoP 22:41, 28 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]
At Japanese Wikipedia, there has been a discussion on a similar point, too. The feature would be welcomed indeed. Some spelling mistakes are too obvious, so that people do not hesitate to redirect it to the correct one. And the reader would notice that redirect was made because of the spelling mistake (say, "The The" spelled "Teh The"). But then others are common mistakes that people may not be aware - some names of foreign people are difficult enough, for example. Some of such mistakes could reasonably be mentioned in the article, but not all of those deserve a mention. At the same time, not mentioning it could result in the reinforcement of the mistake, by letting the reader to think that it is one of legitimate alternative spellings, etc. Comment function would be a nice solution to some of those cases. Tomos 00:25, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Vilna Gaon/ Elijah son of Solomon

Their seems to be an article that repeats itself under two different names one of them should be destroyed

Which articles do you mean? There is a Vilna Gaon article, but no Elijah son of Solomon article. You could list them at Wikipedia:Duplicate articles. Angela. 19:11, May 28, 2004 (UTC)

New Skin is not working well

I notice that the skin in Chinese WP has been updated, but it seems that, it makes even the "Standard" one not work well. The external links are the biggest problems: their source codes are just displayed there! some source codes do not work, like this one "<a class=internal href='/wiki/Wikipedia:首页'>维基社群</a>" which should be link to the Community Portal in Chinese WP, but i just see the source codes; pics with hyperlinks have ugly borders...  :-| --哈越中 (talk) 18:32, May 28, 2004 (UTC)

There are still quite a few bugs being ironed out. See m:MediaWiki 1.3 comments and bug reports, which is wher new bugs should be reported. Angela. 19:04, May 28, 2004 (UTC)
That's not a bug, it's a feature :) Just change all the MediaWiki: pages that use HTML to use the wiki syntax. Dori | Talk 19:42, May 28, 2004 (UTC)
What?? Is it a feature or a bug or is Dori joking? now I am confused... olivier 19:50, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Trouble Editing

The oddest thing has been happening to me. I tried several times, both some hours ago and both now, to edit MediaWiki:Feature ("Austrian" should like to "Austria"), but to no avail. Every time I press "Edit this page", get to the edit page, make the modification, press "Save page" - and my Mozilla Firefox appears to be loading the page, until, several minutes later, it gives up. Wikipedia isn't the most reliable site when it comes to performance, so I wouldn't be surprised were it not for the fact that in the meanwhile I successfully edited and saved other pages. Is there some sort of curse hanging above the MediaWiki: namespace? -- Itai 20:20, 28 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

No, it's you that has the curse :) I just made the change you suggest (with firebird, no less) and it seems to have taken. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 21:03, 28 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]
My Mozilla also had that issue. I tried to do it before Finlay and it took a really long time and came back not able to do it. Things are working fine, though a little slow, on other pages. Weird. moink 21:45, 28 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]
I've seen this issue too several times in the past, including yesterday. I use Mozilla 1.7. When I click Save page, sometimes it will take minutes before it returns. In the meantime, I can look at my contributions and see the system has recorded my change, yet the page has not refreshed yet. If I use another window to go back to that page I just saved, then it seems the page gets refreshed just before I see the updated page in the other window (tab). RedWolf 18:51, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Subscript in captions

Is there a way to add subscript to text being used in a caption? I'm trying to get a few numbers as subscripts in the caption for the Spirometry article. It just shows the wikimarkup being used: e.g. <sub>3</sub>

Any help appreciated

--Prisonblues 21:06, 28 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

I think formatting in image captions is one of the features being added in the 1.3 release - whether subscript will work I'm not sure (and haven't time to test right now, somebody just threw a plastic bottle at me :-/) - IMSoP 22:51, 28 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]
Seems to work at test.wikipedia.org. Niteowlneils 01:34, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Russian accents warning

Now that we have Verdana as our default font, the accents in Russian words will appear in the wrong places (due to the "Verdana bug").  Do not attempt to move accents — simply switch Wikipedia skin to "Standard". — Monedula 19:13, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

I must strongly disagree. We can't expect the casual reader to make an account, log in, and then set their preferences so that the stress-indicating accents won't be in the wrong places. We need to remove them. The aren't actually necessary. We don't put accents in other languages unless they are a normal part of the printed language. -- Thanks, BCorr|Брайен 19:21, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]
Is there no consideration of changing over to a less stupid font? I notice that Verdana doesn't include all the diacritics for transliterating indic langauges, either. And those are quite necessary. -- कुक्कुरोवाच|Talk‽ 19:32, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

New Skin Icon?

With the new monobook skin, several of the links have a curious little icon next to them. The icon is a box, with an arrow exiting to the top right. Can I ask: What is the significance of this icon?--Fangz 19:34, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure, but I think it was a transitory mistake. With the MonoBook skin , my navigation menu now has a small box bullet point icon before each item. The box + arrow icon now appears following external links, so I guess its meaning is clear. -- Solipsist 19:52, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]
External links have icons by default. You can change this in your user stylesheet. Angela. 20:13, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]
Aaaaaaaaaahhhhhh! Help! Change it back! I liked the old version better... --Quagga
To change it back, go to Special:preferences, click on "skin" and choose "Standard". However, I recommend you give it a chance for a week or so first. It takes time to get used to something so radically different, but you might love it if you give it a chance. I've seen it for a while as it has been on test for a few months, and once you get used to it, it is an improvement. Angela. 20:13, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]
Sans-serif fonts, bleah. And it really is too small, at least on my Mac Mozilla. Who makes these decisions anyhow? Would it help to recruit some design professionals? I still haven't gotten over the ugly borders around my pretty stamp images - carefully set up a white background to go with a white page, and boom, they're all wearing prison gray. Stan 22:44, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]
Sans-serif fonts are easy to remove. Just add
body {font: x-small serif; }
to User:Stan Shebs/monobook.css. You might need to increase the font if you do this, so also add
#globalWrapper { font-size:140%; }
More details at m:User styles. Angela. 00:30, 30 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]
Yes yes, I see the gray is gone, now it's just a glass prison :-). Stan 22:50, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

When using the Standard skin, if I look at a page that contains an external link, whether the link is renamed or not, the external link is listed after the closing bracket. For example, if I posted [externallink.com], it is displayed as [1] (externallink.com). Rick'K 20:38, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

new layout not Firefox-friendly?

The new layout looks great, but it unfailingly crashes my installation of Firefox 0.8. The old look loaded without a hitch; I'm guessing the new layout is heavy with tables and forms?

Works fine for me (Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040417 Firefox/0.8) --rbrwrˆ 20:55, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]
Me too. Wyllium 21:01, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]
I had several nasty visual artifacts in the classic skin in firefox, but they seemed to go after I restarted. Perhaps either I or squid had a cached version of the stylesheet. Equally, wikis where I still have the default (monobook) skin set (meta, de) everything works fine. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 21:07, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]
The only tables in this page are one in the boilerplate at the top, and the automatic table of contents. There is only one form - the search box. The skin seems to work OK in Firefox on Windows as well. --rbrwrˆ 21:17, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

I am using Firefox .8 and it looks fine to me SD6-Agent 23:21, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Same here... maybe you're using some extension, that causes problems?Fangz 23:48, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Overall I really like the new skin but:

What the hell happened to the automated selected anniversaries section? I thought that the English Wikipedia was not going to be upgraded until the 'variable in template messages bug' was fixed. This really pisses me off! Also, what happened to the background fill color for all non-article pages? The distinction before was a very useful one, now it is vague. So the only difference between Sandbox:maveric149, user:maveric149/sandbox, talk archive:Sandbox would be the tab at the top of those pages. This will only encourage the misuse of the article namespace and lessen the distinction between metadata and content.

I also see that some links to stub articles are showing up as red links for those with a stub threshold set. The new "blue" links have a very hard to read muted color and the external link icon is hideous. This is especially true for [1] wiki ref links in articles. So please:

  • Fix the selected anniversaries bug ASAP.
  • Change the internal link color back to standard blue
  • Change the stub link color back to what it was before.
  • Get rid of the ugly and intrusive external link icon and use the old color for external links.

And don't give me the "you can change your preferences" line since all of the above needs to be default. Also, is it just me or is the default font size way too small? --mav 20:52, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

I have to agree about the link colors and the font. I would be using the Standard skin, except that the link problem I listed above makes it unusable. RickK 21:14, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

The problem with selected anniversaries is a different one to the one reported on the 25th. It's a known issue that is being worked on. Angela. 21:48, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Serious Problem

Aaahh! The links in my navigation box (eg, "Main Page", "Recent changes" "Current events" etc) don't do anything when I click on them in this new fancy-pants design. Are they now using some other type of sripting? Horrified, -- Infrogmation 20:53, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

They work for me. What browser/skin are you using. Does clicking them really do nothing at all? m:MediaWiki 1.3 comments and bug reports would be a better place to report this. Angela. 21:46, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]
And when I look at an article history, why is there now a big grey button with the text "pare selected vers"? Hm, the folks who've been upgrading Wikipedia softwear have as far as I've seen generally done an excellent job, but the latest change is looking to me too buggy to have been set as the new default yet. -- Infrogmation 21:03, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]
That should say compare selected versions. Do you have larger font settings that might be causing it? Angela. 21:46, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

error

Every time I go to a new page, I get a pop-up message saying "A runtime error has occurred. Do you wish to debug? Line [16, 17, or 18] Error: addcss is undefined". Meelar 21:15, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Which browser are you using? That's a javascript DHTML call (I'm surprised any of that stuff is portable). -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 21:34, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]
Try clearing your cache. If it still happens, please report it at sourceforge. Angela. 21:43, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]
I get the same error, but for line 18 only. --Jiang 22:55, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Another Standard skin problem

Tables are way too wide using the Standard skin. For example, when I came to this page, the table at the top of the page spread all the way across my screen and even made me have to scroll right to see all of it. That didn't happen before. RickK 21:18, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Rick, this just the problem I had on the main page in classic. But it's gone now, and I think it was restarting the browser and flushing the cache that did it. I just switched to Cologne Blue right now to test your problem, and both this page and the main page work fine, without being overbroad. I'm using firefox 0.8, but I just tested it in IE and Opera and they're both fine too. Tell me - do the exlinks on the main page show up as actual spelled-out URLs? -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 21:28, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]
I just completely rebooted my computer. And I don't have caching enabled. It is still happening. Oh, also, now when I do a section Edit, instead of getting a "=" at the beginning and the end of the section title in the edit summary box, I get "/*" at the beginning and */" at the end. And yes, the exlinks on the main page show up as actual spelled-out URLs, and the tables are too wide. RickK 21:50, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Problem with the Cologne Blue skin

Headers are entirely too large. hd2 levels are larger than the main header of the page. RickK 21:18, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Again, with firefox, opera, and IE I don't see this - h1 headings are (a wee bit) larger, but they're grey (curious, but not a problem). Perhaps this too is a caching problem your end? -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 21:32, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]
Most issues with design can be fixed in your own user stylesheet. Please see m:User styles. For other problems, see m:MediaWiki 1.3 comments and bug reports. Angela. 21:41, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, guess what?

Even though I don't have caching enabled in my preferences, I cleaned it all out anyway and my problems went away. RickK 21:54, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

It wasn't your browser cache, or media wiki's "cache articles" setting that was at fault - the squid will still keep a copy of the stylesheet(s) regardless, until you (well, someone) does a shift-reload, which makes the browser send special "no-cache" lines in the HTTP request (and thus making any intermediate caches get up off their ass and go fetch everything fresh). -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 21:58, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

No Help?!?

Help seems to be deleted. Not blanked by a vandal, gone. No History, nuthin'. "Help:Contents From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. (Wikipedia does not have an article on this topic yet. To start the article, click Edit this page.)" Niteowlneils 22:14, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Somebody's created a redirect as a work-around for now. Thanks, mysterious one. Niteowlneils 23:16, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]
The Wikipedia:help namespace is completely new. There never was a Help:Contents page. Angela. 00:33, 30 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Template name space?

See Template talk:NihonG. What's going on? RickK 23:03, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Is there some sort of forum for discussing msg "template" syntax? I'm not entirely sure whether it's that the new version is buggy or that I simply haven't figured out how to make the transition from the old version. (My current favorite problem? {{Template:x}}{{Template:y}} is interpreted as referring to a page named "Template:x}}{{Template:y", owing, I presume, to the new ability to use {{}} directly. See Nirvana for some interesting consequences. (Of course, I imagine the likely response will be: "Why were you using msg: for that in the first place," to which my answer will have to be some enraged gibbering madness on my part about the English wiki's inexplicable non-utf-ness.) -- कुक्कुरोवाच|Talk‽ 23:30, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, using a "|" helps somewhat, but for some reason I'm not quite grokking, it's still unpredictable whether the tag will produce the correct text or just "Template:x"... -- कुक्कुरोवाच|Talk‽

dKosopedia: Copying articles from Wikipedia

The Daily Kos political blog has opened the dKosopedia wiki. There are a number of original articles, however some are copied from Wikipedia (see: Democratic Party). The copied pages contain this notice: "This article was copied from Wikipedia. See Discussion section." The Discussion section of each article contains this notice: "I believe it is initially important that a foundation is laid with a list of intelligent links to build a comprehensive database. After many of these important links are filled, perhaps it would be wise to rewrite the article.

That is to say, this should be temporary."

Are there any copyright, licensing, etc. issues here? Please take a look, I don't know much about this stuff.

24.118.116.241 23:41, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

From Wikipedia:Copyrights "The license we use grants free access to our content in the same sense as free software is licensed freely. This principle is known as copyleft. That is to say, Wikipedia content can be copied, modified, and redistributed so long as the new version grants the same freedoms to others and acknowledges the authors of the Wikipedia article used (a direct link back to the article satisfies our author credit requirement). Wikipedia articles therefore will remain free forever and can be used by anybody subject to certain restrictions, most of which serve to ensure that freedom."
So yes, I think they can do that. Nice to see they think of us as a list of intelligent links.--Fangz 23:55, 29 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Strange space in "Marshall Plan"

Does anyone know why there is a large gap before the table in the "Marshall Plan expenditures" section of Marshall Plan? It appears in all the different skins. Is something clashing with the new software? --Minesweeper 01:19, 30 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

The HTML indentation confused the new software. As a stop-gap, I've removed the indentation. In the longer term, the page should be migrated to the new table format. You should file a bug on this (hey, I'm sleepy!), although a fix may not be possible. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 01:31, 30 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Star's Edge

I have no desire to get involved in an edit war, but my attempts to give the article Star's Edge a more neutral POV have been reverted by user:216.53.175.46 who appears to be a devotee of the, um, philosophy. In particular, I was interested to see what the criticisms of Avatar were, so I followed the external link described as "Critics" only to find that it was an official page from Star's Edge calling all the critics liars. This is deceptive linking and does not offer any balance. Instead, I retained that link but retitled it "Rebuttal of Critics" and googled for what seemed a typical criticism link, adding that.

Would I be justified in re-reverting? How long before moderation or mediation is needed? dramatic 01:40, 30 May 2004 (UTC) (Just an old-fashioned skeptic)[reply]

New Skin

Hurray for the new skin! I really like the new skin for the main page and the edit pages. Could we skin this page (which is a sickly yellow) in the new format? -24.199.99.174 02:26, 30 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

I see in the time it took me to post, the Village Pump was newly skinned! Very nice look. - 24.199.99.174 02:27, 30 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

I tried to log in from home with two different browsers and I got some kind of creepy new skin and I hate it. I had to go across the street to a machine where it remembers me. I could not log in at home -- not only that, one of the browsers would not even display the "log in" link, and the other had it crammed way up in the corner and it did basically nothing. The latter was Internet Exploder 5 on a Mac with 9.2.2 ;Bear 04:19, 30 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

I like the new skin but the link colours all look the same. Luckily, theres an easy fix: Go to <User:yourusername/monobook.css> and enter

/* standard link colors */ a { color: #0000FF; } a:visited { color: #7F007F; } a:active, a.new { color: #FF0000; } a.interwiki, a.external { color: #3366BB; } a.stub { color: #772233; }

and save and shift+f5 to refresh. Bensaccount 03:54, 30 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Neat - thanks! --mav 04:33, 30 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. My eyes were starting to hurt. --Jiang 06:14, 30 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

See m:User styles for more details on what you can change. Angela. 08:12, 30 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Policy change on VfD?

Why the policy change on VfD? I'm referring to the new idea of just putting the debate under the heading, instead of using MediaWiki messages... just curious. blankfaze | ♫ 04:24, 30 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

In the new version, when two people work on two different sections, it will not cause an edit conflict. The MediaWiki messages were a temporary solution for all the edit conflicts, so that's not needed anymore. Wyllium 05:27, 30 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Formatting

At the bottom of the article French Revolution, the following

''This article makes use of the out-of-copyright'' [http://www.outfo.org/literature/pg/etext06/8hfrr10.txt History of the French Revolution from 1789 to 1814]'', by François Mignet ([[1824]]), as made available by [[Project Gutenberg]].''

...shows up as...

This article makes use of the out-of-copyright History of the French Revolution from 1789 to 1814, by François Mignet (1824), as made available by Project Gutenberg.

On my system, at least, there is an undesired space between the external link and the following comma. I believe this is new with the new software upgrade, and I presume it is not specific to my configuration.

  1. Does anyone understand what is going on?
  2. Is there either a fix on the way or a good, generalizable workaround? (Obviously in this case I could move the restart of the italics to after the comma, but I'm interested in a general solution)

-- Jmabel 04:35, 30 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Are you seeing an icon following the external link? (Looks like two intersecting boxes). If not, there could be some browser/compatibility issue: there's meant to be an icon there, and it's present for me. - Nunh-huh 05:32, 30 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]
I am not seeing a space. →Raul654 05:28, 30 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

So yet again another problem

When I go to Current events, the calendar is spreading across the whole of the page. The pink table (deaths in May, etc.} is spreading across the whole page. The supposedly hidden notes (" ", " ", " ", etc. are displaying. These problems were not happening the last time I logged in to Wikipedia. What's going on? RickK 06:08, 30 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

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