Talk:Symbolism (arts)
- Symbolist poetry largely begins with Les Fleurs du Mal (Flowers of Evil) by Charles Baudelaire, and Baudelaire, in turn, was deeply influenced in his literary theories by the poems and stories of Edgar Allan Poe, whom he translated into French. In this sense, Symbolism is the first major literary movement that had its roots in the United States of America.
An interesting theory but the corollary of which is underdetermined by the facts. The symbolist movement did not ultimately devolve purely from the work of Baudelaire, significant though he may have been. To what extent Baudelaire was influential (& by extension Poe) on the likes of Verlaine, Rimbaud, Mallarmé, etc can be debated ad nauseam, but certainly Baudelaire is no Poe clone and moreover symbolism as a form definitely pre-existed Poe. This kind of Americano-centric nonsense makes precisely the point I have reiterated over and over: it is the steady trickle of US Minitruth propaganda of the most revolting kind. user:sjc
- The roots of Symbolism in the USA are striking mostly because so few literary movements or schools started here, especially in the 19th century. I am not at all certain that symbolism is a form; it is a school, a set of shared poetic aims, mannerisms, and stock tropes. Symbolism, in one sense, represents the continuation of the more gothic and pessimistic side of Romanticism, and a such Poe would merit a mention in any case. Almost all Symbolist poets I have metion Poe in their verse at one point or another, or allude to a Poe story or theme. ---Ihcoyc
I have no problem with Poe being cited as influential, and indeed I would say that the work of Baudelaire was to a great extent coloured by his reading and translations of Poe, but nowhere nearly as much as some critics would like to suggest. To suggest that Symbolism is a school however is to entirely misrepresent it. Symbolism represents a particular aesthetic take on things which is beyond the simplicitudes of allegiance and expediency: you either subscribe to the symbolist take or you don't, which is why poets who are capable of spanning the dichotomous chasm are such a rarity e.g. Marina Tsvetaeva. Symbolism, moreover, has obvious European antecedents which predate Poe such as e.g. Blake. user:sjc
- FWIW, I sought to underline antecedents to Symbolism in the USA, not to promote the cultural primacy of the USA, but rather to suggest a counternarrative to the standard model of "American Literature," which is strongly biased in favour of social realism. The Symbolist stream flourished here --- what would all of those silent movie producers have done w/o Symbolist imagery? --- but the standard academic narrative says something else. Symbolism is more respected elsewhere in the Americas --- J. L. Borges owes much to Symbolism, as do Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Isabel Allende, and for that matter the Hernandez brothers --- but in Poe's own native land, our most "important" native writer is not given the respect he deserves. That was what I meant by seeking to magnify Poe as a source of Symbolism, not to promote some version of "everything was invented in the USA." --- Ihcoyc
I take on board what you are saying Ihcoyc. The only reason I was a bit tetchy is because it so commonly is the situation that US writers want to grab the credit for everything, including the signing of the Magna Carta, besides claiming the authorship of the Anglo-Saxon Chronicles and the Epic of Gilgamesh :-). Borges is actually another interesting anomaly btw, half symbolist, half not. user:sjc
anglophone symbolists
not getting into the poe discussion here, but I scanned the original page and I just wanted to point out that there were English-speaking and -writing Symbolists more or less contemporary with the rest of the European symbolists. Two of them are Canadians, although the Americans like to try and annex them as well: Bliss Carmen and Charles G.D. Roberts (I could have the GD initials wrong but cross reference with animal stories and you'll find the right fellow.)
Astonished. hy
The label "Symbolist poets" could/should be changed to "Symbolist writers" or "Symbolist authors." This would allow for the inclusion of Paul Adam, who wrote a few poems, but is better known for his novels. Remy de Gourmont would fit better as he is best known for his prose works. In either case, I would delete Jean Lorrain. He did publish some poems, but is principally a prose writer whose esthetic falls clearly outside of Symbolism.