Talk:Jimmy Carter

I have taken it upon myself to change this, "Carter's administration marked the decline of U.S. power overseas and an economic recession. Polls showed Americans doubted his abilities as a leader, but supported him as a person." to this, "Political opponents see Carter's administration as a point of decline for U.S. power overseas and as an economic recession. Carter's defenders point to his efforts after the presidency as his real role in society as a humanitarian. They also note that Carter was coming off of a legacy of bad White House policy and only had four years to try to put that in the past

Please don't take any research from this page. The whole entire article is skewed.

I don't believe that this is neutral."Carter's administration marked the decline of U.S. power overseas and an economic recession." I think it needs to be changed to represent a less biased point of view. This is especially so when it is the first line.

The table here causes the text of the page to extend into the right hand column where the Special features are located. -- Zoe

Nobel Prize

• Mr. Carter did not receive this honor primarily because of his own achievements, but because the Nobel Committee wanted to administer a slap in the face of President George Bush. And it was very up front about it.

• listen to Gunnar Berge, the Norwegian head of the committee, who did not mince words as he announced this year's winner. "With the position Carter has taken. . . the award must be seen as a criticism of the line the current U.S. administration has taken on Iraq." Asked by a reporter if this was a "kick in the leg" at Washington, Mr. Berge said, "The answer must be an unconditional 'yes.' " [1] -- Ed Poor

• This is a poor translation. The idea was that it could be concieved as it.

• Well, if Bush's belief that peace were war were correct, then he would deserve it instead. [ducks and runs] --KQ

I never fight with you, KQ. You don't have to duck. And I'm not saying Berge was wrong, only that he frankly admitted his ulterior motive. The timing is exquisite, you know: (1) Bush gets congressional go-ahead for Iraqi strong-arm tactics; (2) Carter gets belated peace prize; (3) N. Korea admits it deceived Carter on nukes. The point is to record all this stuff, and let the reader make of it what he will. --Ed Poor

Yes, of course, the point is simply to record it.  :-) Sometimes my penchant towards commentary gets loose. You're turning into a bit of a diplomat, you know. --KQ

Sorry, I'm a newb, but I think there's an error in the article: It says "The USS Jimmy Carter (SSN-23) was named on April 27, 1998, making it ... perhaps the only US Navy vessel to be named for person who has been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize." And yet, Theodore Roosevelt (as mentioned) also received the Nobel Peace Prize, and had a (US naval) ship named after him as well. Is this a mistake in the article? 24.234.119.134 20:38, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC) :Yes, someone just added that line recently, probably without checking (since they used the word "perhaps". I will change it. There is no reason that this type of factual historical stuff should be wrong. except that someone else already did. (BTW, Woodrow Wilson shares the distinction of having being a former US president who has a nobel peace prize, AND a nuclear sub named after him.) Morris 22:28, Feb 20, 2005 (UTC)

Hmmm, somehow it got added back in. And I removed it again. 24.234.119.134 18:56, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Talk on disambiguation block format moved to Wikipedia talk:Disambiguation.

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What is his religion? I thought that his religion influenced heavily his politics. Isn't it so? -- Error

He is a Baptist. Considering that it is one of the most conservative religions, I don't think he follows the teachings too much. I believe he used to be a Southern Baptist, but left due to political reasons quite recently.

-- He is still a practicing Baptist. You don't have to be a hippie-hating conservative to be part of the Christian religion. Even if you're a fundamentalist.

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Once again, I do not see any reason to delete the U.S. Presidents table, since it is helpful and include's Jimmy Carter's name. --65.73.0.137

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From the page: Some "have alleged that a secret agreement between the Reagan campaign (orchestrated by George H. W. Bush) was responsible" for the end of the Iran hostage crisis. Between the Reagan campaign and whom? (Don't ask me, I was born in '81.)

... and the Iranian revolutionary government. that's the allegaation as i recall it.

see the October Surprise for more info. Gamaliel 03:35, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Failure

User:Old Right wants to have a statement that Carter's presidency is considered as a failure by historians. The link that he supplied lists Carter as "Below Average" instead of "Failure", which is why I reverted it. I think a more nuanced and balanced paragraph could be written about how history ranks Carter's presidency against others. I am not the one to write it. Perhaps User:Old Right could start a new section and others could supply balancing sources. Edwinstearns 17:25, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Killer rabbit

Who cares? This hardly seems worth reporting, specifically in such detail, and the beginning of the article on his presidency. At the very least, it makes the article much harder to read. 137.53.21.173 19:10, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

I've never posted anything on Wikipedia. But I noticed that the article states the rabbit attacked both a "small boat" and "the presidential yacht." The image shows him in a small boat with no motor. The language seems sarcastic. I had never heard of this story, but it seems more of a public overreaction to a high-school-grade embarrassing moment than a worthwhile bit of history. I was interested enough to read it, but it is at least out of place. 15:44, 6 October 2005 (UTC)168.166.54.11

"attacked" the rabbit seems better than "flailed", it balances Carter's pacificist image. nobs 01:26, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

UFO

Why is this being removed? --Golbez 23:55, Sep 24, 2004 (UTC)

NPOV check

The lead-in of this article, the 2nd paragraph specifically, strikes me as of verious dubious neutrality. While most sentences probably could be defended as factual in isolation, this paragraph still mostly reads like it came off a conservative blog. For the moment, I'm adding the npov check tag to invite attention from other editors. I'm not disputing neutrality per se, but I do think it could use some attention. Wolfman 00:38, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The prevailing notion is that Carter is a good guy but was a horrible president. In his defense, we can note that:

• he was a peanut farmer who was billed as a man of honesty became president in a post-watergate era and shunned the ceremonial trappings of the office
• many of the problems that plagued his administration transpired abroad (i.e. OPEC oil crisis, Iran revolution, Afghanistan invasion, developing economies of Germany and Japan) and he had little control over these events
• though he was an unpopular president, he became very popular around the world after he left office for all the charitable work he did (and is doing)

Other than this, I don't think a not-so favorable era of history deserves to be billed as an era prosperity when it was otherwise not. Camp David, Salt II, etc. are already mentioned as accomplishments. Let's not whitewash in the name of NPOV. --Jiang 21:53, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I agree. I think Carter was one of the worst presidents of all time, but one should examine the second paragraph for NPOV. Opening a biography with "marked a decline in U.S. power..." might be, at the very least, inappropriately placed. Zenosparadox 00:25, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I disagree. I think he's a very intelligent guy, who could have done a lot for America if they'd listened to him more. If his energy act had been passed by Congress, perhaps America would not have been in the place it is now with oil prices and heavy reliance on non-renewable fuels.

• Carter had a vision, just not the connections to pull it off, and the world was going through a tough time, through no fault of Carters' own.
• By the very token that Carter chose Paul Volcker, he chose the man that would lead America out of stagflation, who was still fixing stagflation while Reagan graced himself with the honour of being America's 'economic saviour'. Stagflation was not Carter's fault. There is no acknowledgement that presidents Johnson, Nixon, and Ford, had not done a thing about it, and it was caused by the committment to the Vietnam War. Carter indeed succeeded in combatting Stagflation, just not when he was in office. Thus my point is, Carter saved the US economy from Stagflation through the wise appointment of an economist who could do the job, and who would have not been there to give Reagan the glory if Carter hadn't put him there in the first place. I would like this changed.

• I disagree that Carters' administration lead to a "marked decline in US power". The US were already pulling out of protecting allied nations starting with Nixon's Guam Doctrine. Carter was elected on a platform of dealing with domestic issues, and this statement sounds as if Americans desired to maintain that 'power' at that point in time. And also this begs the question of 'what is power?'. Having a multi-billion dollar army is nice but is the ability to negotiate your way out of losing young lives a more powerful skill? Is aggrevating your foes with 'Star Wars' missile defence systems power? --Kbbbb 18:17, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Coulda woulda shoulda; road to hell is paved with good intentions. Fortunately coulda woulda shoulda reasoning are not historical facts. nobs 18:25, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

The Energy bill argument based on the idea that it was a key policy of Carter's and that it hadn't been given the airtime it deserved. Another 'Good intention' was his starting of the Middle East Peace process through negotiation between Egypt and Israel. The fact that many of the problems that contributed to the failings of his Presidency were external has already been acknowledged and I see no point in going over that again.--Kbbbb 18:58, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

I rearranged some things in the lead and would like some comments. --Jiang 23:40, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Involvement in Three Mile Island incident

The article currently only mentioned Three Mile Island in the harsh sentence:

Carter has been accused of ordering a cover-up of the events at Three Mile Island following the near meltdown of that nuclear plant.

What's the source on this? The Three Mile Island article makes no such accusation, instead saying:

U.S. President Jimmy Carter ordered a full investigation of the TMI incident. According to Admiral Hyman G. Rickover, the key figure in the development of nuclear power plants and a close confidant of the president, the original report was so critical of the nuclear power industry's safety lapses that if it had been released, all nuclear plants in the U.S. would probably have been forced to close. Rickover said the final version was more muted, at the command of Jimmy Carter.

As I recall, Carter was pretty heavily involved in Three Mile, during as well as after the incident; it'd be nice if someone would write a paragraph on it. --LostLeviathan 23:16, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)

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The whole contoveseries section needs to be removed. The 3 mile island comment is unsubstantiated. And the "October Surprise" part is both unsubstantiated and about Ronald Reagon NOT Carter!

Billy Carter

While I think Billy Carter should definitely be included in this article, I think it might be better if he had his own sub-heading, or was discussed as part of Controversies (as it was his notoriety and alleged involvement with Libya that is of note to Jimmy Carter's presidency). Billy Beer, I'm glad you've added a reference to Billy, but I question whether it should be in the first paragraph, up with the presidency and governorship. Jimmy is the most well-known of the two, and I'm not sure Billy is sufficiently important to warrant a first paragraph reference. Any thoughts anyone? I'll be glad to help construct a Billy section for this article (I'm just reading a book which discusses his impact on the Carter presidency). Amelia Hunt 02:18, Dec 22, 2004 (UTC)

Absolutely right. A paragraph or two in the controversies section sounds great. For the moment, I've put a mention in a parenthetical after the description of his family, as it definitely didn't belong in the lead, especially with that phrasing. RadicalSubversiv E 02:27, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Well done. I'll add it to my mental "to do" list. Amelia Hunt 02:40, Dec 22, 2004 (UTC)

52 American Hostages...

I see that this phrase has come and gone from the opening part of the article several times in the last few days. Personally, I think that it is appropriate (The 52 hostages were clearly one of the defining events in the Carter administration). If anyone either agrees or disagrees, it would be most useful to express the agreement or disagreement without reference to the reputation or history of the other editors. Yes, I know that there are some difficult people on wikipedia. My suggestion is to treat each case de novo. Morris 14:59, Jan 19, 2005 (UTC)

Second paragraph

This article is about Jimmy Carter, not about "things which happened from 1976 to 1980". By putting a lengthy paragraph in the lead describing a variety of events which Carter bore little to no responsibility before (including interest rates, which are set by the Fed) we come very close to suggesting that Carter's presidency was a disaster, which is inappropriate. Moreover, everything being described is covered further down in the article in detail; the purpose of the lead is to summarize. RadicalSubversiv E 19:50, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I can remove the part about interest rates from the lead part of the article, and augment the discussion in the lower part of the article. Do you think that that would be a good idea? I don't see anything in the article about domestic policies and the economy. I see your point, but it is hard to separate the topics of the Carter administration from US History from 1976 to 1980. Don't forget that Carter appointed both Frederick Schultz and Paul Volker (vice chair and chair of the Fed). I was thinking I might also put in some information about the boycott of the Moscow olympic games and the Panama canal treaties. Let me know if you have any thoughts about these. Morris 20:27, Jan 19, 2005 (UTC)

The "Presidency" section has some stuff about the recession, but it should definitely be expanded and split into its own subsection. You're right that we can't (and shouldn't) completely split Carter from the events that occurred during his administration, but we can limit our coverage of such events to Carter's role in them, or at least the ways in which they affected his presidency. We should have detailed coverage of the 70s recession, the Olympics boycott, and the Panama Canal treaties in separate articles if we don't already. Incidentally, it's Paul Volcker, just so you don't think we're without an article on him. And his interest rate hikes are generally credited with ending the 70s inflation crisis, even if they led to a temporary increase in unemployment. RadicalSubversiv E 21:27, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I added a bit more information. I'm not sure that my writing is the clearest, but I do think that the article benefits from the additions. Feel free to change if you like -- and I do have to work on my spelling (:-). Thanks, Morris 01:32, Jan 20, 2005 (UTC)

reversion of the last half dozen edits?

I noticed that someone (with just an IP address) seems to have undone the last several edits (discussed above on this talk page) with an edit summary of just something like "Here we go". Unless someone articulates some objection shortly, I think that I will revert to the last edit by User:Old Right. Morris 19:30, Jan 23, 2005 (UTC)

While I'm not sure I agree with the recent changes to the second paragraph and the edits to the Clinton photo caption (perhaps the photo should be enlarged to accomodate the earlier -- better -- caption), all the piping of the links in the Cabinet (adding Sectretary of...) seems quite reasonable... — Davenbelle 20:00, Jan 23, 2005 (UTC)

Actually, the links have "Secretary of" in them, someone had changed them all to put in piping to remove the "secretary of" words. I don't really care about that either way, so I'll leave them as they are now.

I changed the second paragraph, and the photo caption. I took out the sentence in the 2nd paragraph that was both duplicated below and had a typo in a link. Morris 22:05, Jan 23, 2005 (UTC)

The changes whomever made added "Secretary of" to the right of the pipe so that Vance, for example, reads as "Secretary of State", not just "State"; full link includes "United States" as a prefix which is way too verbose for display in the table. The older narrow table simply listed Vance as "State" and use acronyms such as HHS. If anyone wants to make'em terse again, I have no real issue with it. — Davenbelle 23:09, Jan 23, 2005 (UTC)

I looked over some of the other President's articles and decided to change the table to match the standard form. — Davenbelle 23:26, Jan 23, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, I do think it looks fine the way that you (Davenbelle) changed it. I was confused about the format. Morris 00:02, Jan 24, 2005 (UTC)

Does someone think that the title Jimmy Carter is not neutral??

Someone put a tag on the article: title/subject matter dispute, but I don't see anything new on the talk page. If someone wants to move the article to James E. Carter I think that that would be a bad idea, although with a redirect, I guess it wouldn't matter that much. I've never seen him called "James" anywhere. Morris 18:56, Feb 18, 2005 (UTC)

Of course, the article should stay "Jimmy Carter". No one calls him "James". Britannica titles their entry: Carter, Jimmy" for example. Paul August ☎ 19:25, Feb 18, 2005 (UTC)

Although he never changed his name legally, he has enforced "Jimmy" as official name - even disputing the use of "James" in a book about the presidents by the National Park Service! He signed presidential documents with "Jimmy" - DavidWBrooks 19:01, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Carter's funny photo

(Reading from the history page I see that DavidWBrooks has reverted my edit. If Mr. DavidWBrooks would be kind enough to brief me a bit on the nature of this Carter photo I would appreciate this very much)

I see that someone has reverted my post on the funny photo of Carter posted in this article awhile ago. I'm not a troll/vandal, so I'm not going to repeatedly post this request.

But there's something I miss here, didn't Wikipedia call for NPOV? So what's wrong with Jimmy Carter sticking finger in his nose if it reveals an aspect of Carter's life that's not well-known to outsiders? I mean, even photos of Abu-Ghraib are shown in this encyclopedia for crying out loud!

Unless the photo has been doctored in Photoshop, in which case I apologize for my ignorance. Otherwise I demand to know the reason why I can't see that funny photo!

(Please sign your comments with ~~~~. And you are incorrect - I revert the comment.) The photo was not of Carter, but of some other man picking his nose. It was an act of vandalism and the next paragraph of the Wired article you mentioned (perhaps poorly) points that out. The vandalism has long since been fixed and you can not find that image on Wikipedia. Even if it were of Carter, it's not NPOV to show a single insignificantly minor social faux pas, especially as the main photo. To do so would be to suggest that that is his primary image to the world, which is not the case. - UtherSRG 23:41, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)

Thank you, UtherSRG, now I understand -- it was actual worse than I thought, and Wikipedians are right to take it off ;-) As for the signature, my apologies for not understanding etiquettes in Wiki talk pages. I thought only registered Wikipedians could sign their passages. I shall sign this reply of mine, right now! - gunner1983 142.106.62.76 15:50, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Graduation Date

According to the USNA offical website, Jimmy Carter graduated in 1947, not 1946.

I think what it says is that he was in the class of '47, but at that time people were graduating in only three years (due to world war two, which was in progress part of the time that Carter was there) so he actually graduated in 1946, even though he was officially part of the class of 1947. Morris 02:51, Mar 24, 2005 (UTC)

redirection

just wanted to add,that there is an important saxophone player James Carter. So redirection is not so good.

Venezuela

I don't understand why the section on the Venezuela elections was omitted from the post-presidential section.

Because it was unsourced, POV, and drew irrelevant connections with Florida. RadicalSubversiv E 21:55, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

List of "Communist" regimes

Nobs has now twice added a sentence offering a list of supposed "Communist regimes" established during Carter's presidency. In addition to the list itself being inaccurate and POV (labelling the Sandinistas as Communist is controversial at best), I question its purpose here -- the obvious intent seems to be to imply that Carter was somehow responsible for these developments. This article is about Carter and his administration, not about concurrent historical events. RadicalSubversiv E 02:21, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Change "regime" to "government" if you so choose. While the article aptly points out Human rights was the priority of the Carter Administration (in its early years), all those nations cited became Communist governments and allied to the Soviet Union and Cuba. This can be easily verified by clicking on each nation cited. Nobs 02:46, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

can be easi

Removed trivia

Removed "Carter is 5 feet, 10 inches (178 cm) tall." from the lead section. Please keep trivia out of this article. If you insist that it stay, please keep it out of the lead section, which is already too long. --Jiang 17:16, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

rv jiang edits

I have reverted Jiang's edits by replacing refs to the Misery index and Martin Luther King Day

I have also created a miscellaneous section to include the information about Carter's height. Jiang pls discuss if you wish to revert. Your edit summary said you had shortened the lead. You did much more than this. Mccready 01:09, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

MLK day was a failure and therefore not notable enough for the lead. It's only one stinking holiday. The Misery index is not well known. How else do you think the lead can be shortened if we don't omit those statements? I'm open to you help. --Jiang 01:12, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Jiang 1.The Misery Index is well known with 95,400 google hits. 2. MLKD gets 314,000 google hits and none describe it as a "stinking holiday". 3. You have removed my attempt to meet your concerns that his height is trivia. Given this, will you please revert you edits? Mccready 02:49, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Misery Index and MLKD are perhaps important enough for inclusion in the article, but not important enough for the lead section. MLKD is a failure that is no longer relevant and proving MLKD's significance is not a case for inclusion here.

I have restored the trivia as a compromise. --Jiang 17:15, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Thank you Jiang Since you ack MI and MLKD are "perhaps" important enough to belong but not the the "lead section", I would be grateful if you would include them where you suggest they belong. Mccready 17:22, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Miscellaneous section

I've added an item to the Miscellaneous section about Carter legalizing homebrewing. I think it's relevant to a lot of people who engage in this hobby, but is minor enough to be in this Miscellaneous section. I think this is at least as relevant as the mans height. Vellmont 01:41, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Yes, homebrewing was part of the deregulation movement that brought us such things as the Savings and Loan crisis for which Reagan gets blamed. Very important we emphasis deregulation began with Carter. nobs 01:54, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Presidential IQ

I reverted an edit that claimed thatCarter was the only one who'd released his IQ score, and that it was 176. It is a matter of public record that JFK's was 119, Nixon's was 143, and (VP) Al Gore's was 134, so the first part of the claim appears false. As to the second, it sounds suspiciously like it was gleaned from this famous urban legend. Please re-insert if there's an excellent source. encephalon 11:24, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

Carter on Abortion:

"I've never been able to believe that Jesus Christ would approve abortions unless the mother's life or health were directly threatened, or was the result perhaps of rape or incest. I was very concerned about espousing or promoting the concept of abortion and tried to do everything I could within the Supreme Court ruling on Roe v. Wade to discourage abortions." He does not believe all abortions should be illegal but adds that "late-term abortion is something that causes me deep concern; it wouldn't grieve me if the Supreme Court (ruled to prohibit it)."

http://www.azcentral.com/ent/arts/articles/1109carter09.html

The key point is that he states that he doesn't think all abortions should be illegal, which is not stated in the article. The article leaves the impression that Carter opposes abortion rights, which appears not to be the case.