Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)

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The technical section of the village pump is used to discuss technical issues. Bugs and feature requests should be made at BugZilla since there is no guarantee developers will read this page.

FAQ: Intermittent database lags can make new articles take some minutes to appear, and cause the watchlist, contributions, and page history/old views sometimes not show the very latest changes. This is an ongoing issue we are working on.

Details about the occasional slow speeds and deadlock errors: here

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Technical archive

Discussions older than 7 days (date of last made comment) are moved here. These discussions will be kept archived for 7 more days. During this period the discussion can be moved to a relevant talk page if appropriate. After 7 days the discussion will be permanently removed.

Floating Category boxes issue still not resolved

I first posted about this months ago but I'm still getting the problem. Sometimes when loading a Wikipedia page in IE6 the Category box appears on top of the main text instead of below it. The box can't be moved with the mouse. Refreshing the page usually cures the problem, only for it to recur later when loading other pages. Lee M 17:17, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

"Save page" showing a preview instead

Lately, I've been having a recurrent problem with page editing. I'll make the changes I want, then click on "Save page", but instead of the changes being recorded I get a preview, like I would if I had clicked on "Show preview" instead. Sometimes this will happen four or five times before I can get the changes to register. Is this a known problem, or something on my end? —Josiah Rowe 17:21, 20 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

You're not the only one; I get this a lot, and others have said the same thing. Don't know what is causing it, but if you keep trying eventually the page will save. Antandrus (talk) 17:23, 20 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Still doing it -- SGBailey 15:34, 26 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
It happens when the servers are slow. I'll venture an educated guess based on my understanding of how this whole thing works, but without having looked at the sources and the configuration: when you click "save", your request goes to a front-end server handling HTTP requests. It sees that you want to save and contacts a database server to store the new text. If the database servers are too overloaded and can't fulfill that store request, the front end server gets a time-out. It knows it couldn't save the text and does the next best thing: it treats it like a preview. (A preview is essentially just a save without storing the changes in the database.) There you are. Maybe someone truly knowledgeable will pipe up now and correct all the errors in this description... Lupo 18:55, 26 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Allright, I have now taken a look at the sources, and it seems my guess was not correct. That's what happens when you speculate out into the blue... It's got nothing to do with timeouts from the database. Instead, what happens is the following: when you log in, the servers create a so-called "session": you get assigned some identification number (stored in a cookie in your browser and given back to the Wikipedia servers with each request you make). On the server side, the Wikipedia servers use this ID to associate with it certain data that should persist across several requests: stuff that should remain while you're logged on, i.e for the duration of your log-in session. One such data item associated with your "session" is a random string of 32 hexadecimal digits: a so-called "token". This token is included in every "edit" screen and sent back to Wikipedia when you click "save". (It's also sent back when you click one of the other buttons, but that's besides the point here. The purpose of this token is explained on the mailing list.) If the token sent back to Wikipedia doesn't match the token the servers have stored with your session, the software refuses to save and handles the request as a preview. For some reason, the servers seem to temporarily "forget" what token they had assigned to your session, and thus get a mismatch, and you get a preview instead of a save. Why the servers have this problem is unknown. However, I stand by my claim that it primarily happens when the servers are (over-)loaded or slow. I've never had it happen when Wikipedia was running smooth and fast. And retrying usually succeeds eventually. Lupo 13:09, 31 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
And yes, it's a known problem, and yes, retrying will eventually succeed. Lupo 18:55, 26 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Apparently now it says "We could not process your edit due to a loss of session data." I've been seeing that a lot in the past few days. Pfalstad 19:20, 4 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I can't stay logged in

Sorry to re-open this question, but every so often I have difficulty staying logged in. When I go to IRC to check it out, I am informed that the problem is my side, even though when I am experiencing this it doesn't matter where I am logging on to Wikipedia from, it happens. It's just started happening again, I'm fed up with it, and I really don't want to go through the same "it's something wrong your side/no it's not" discussion all over again. What causes this and how can I make sure it stops happening? -- 86.134.201.199 21:07, 27 October 2005 (UTC) (Francs2000)[reply]

I experienced the same problem recently. Although I can't tell just what the problem was, it seems the cookies get corrupted somehow (just a guess); the problem went away as soon as I deleted them. Ddawson 12:59, 28 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
This has been happening to me with extremely monotonous regularity over the past couple of days, and it's getting worse. It's now reaching the stage where I get logged out mid-edit (the edit session complains that it's "lost session information" when I save and invites me to re-try the save, which sometimes works). Quite how this is down to cookie corruption at my end I can't see, since a) it comes and goes (if my machine had a problem I wouldn't expect it to cure itself) and b) the only site where I see this is WP. Tonywalton  | Talk 17:27, 3 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Yep. I've had this happen so many times. I created an account so at least my articles would be traceable to me, but by the time I've finished writing it I've been logged out. Occasionally I'm lucky and it's just lost the session info and I have to re-submit it 5 times for it to take. In fact, I was just logged out while typing this!!! WauloK 22:35, 4 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Slow server

Why is your server so BLOODY BLOODY SLOW? This must be one of the slowest servers on the internet! At times, it takes AGES to load a page! And this is supposed to be a popular site! Sure, Wikipedia is great, but the server is way, way, way TOO SLOW!!! 131.111.8.101 21:25, 1 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

That's because it's such a popular site. The server is continually overloaded. Want to donate some money to buy new hardware? ~~ N (t/c) 22:32, 1 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
A little off-topic, perhaps, but whatever happened to the notion that Google might host Wikipedia? Could Google not magically take care of the hardware problem? -- Ec5618 22:38, 1 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
It would be good if something was done. For such a supposedly prestigious site it really is shockingly slow. Sometimes I try to convince myself that it's maybe getting a little better, but I really don't think it is. Why doesn't Wikipedia host sponsored ads to raise some money? As long as it's clear what's an ad and what isn't I have no problem with that. Then maybe enough money could be raised to get sufficient server power to run the site properly.
There is also the issue of software. Response times, database access, and so on are heavily dependent on the efficiency of the software, especially since wikis require a lot more "interaction" with the server than most sites. Here, we have the problem that a) there is no other wiki of this scale in existence, and b) Wikipedia (and the other Wikimedia projects) run on MediaWiki, which is pretty much written for this specific task. A lot of the scaling issues we encounter have never really cropped up before, so the software will inevitably not be working at its best efficiency at any given time - as we adapt to traffic, the traffic keeps growing. It'll probably begin to flatten out soon (if it doesn't, I'd be amazed), which should help - we'll have our resources growing faster than they're used once that happens.
On sponsored ads... generally speaking, they're viewed with great suspicion by the community, and as it stands now we don't need the money; the project can survive (albeit not perfectly) on donations and volunteer work. It's a can of worms it's probably best not to open. Shimgray | talk | 02:11, 5 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

And today, for me, it is atypically fast. -- Jmabel | Talk 01:55, 7 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Can you insert a photo to go with words about pareidolia?

i wrote some words on your pareidolia page and would like to show the example of what i am talking about, without the reader going to the link. Is that possible? i think it would look good on the page. Thanks fred ressler.

If you've got the picture on your computer, upload it at Special:Upload. You can then put the image into the article by using the following notation: [[Image:file_name_of_your_image.jpg]]. You can also do fancy things with your image using the extended image syntax.
Hopefully that clears things up, but if you're still confused we can try again.
--Cherry blossom tree 23:59, 1 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
That assumes, of course, that you created the image yourself, and therefore own the copyright on it. -- Jmabel | Talk 01:56, 7 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Converting HTML entities into Unicode characters

Does converting HTML entities into actual characters cause problems anywhere?

  1. It is beneficial because it makes the wikisource much easier to read.

But...

  1. It does make it more difficult to edit in external editors(/clipboards?) that don't support the extra characters.
    • Are there any browsers that have the same problem with textareas that will strip out characters they don't understand?
    • Could we selectively convert the information into HTML/unicode entities for presenting to these browsers while presenting them as actual characters to other editors? (Or make it a user preference?)
  2. Another problem is that you can't tell at a glance the difference between similar characters in the markup: 
    • —, –, −, -
    • µ, μ
    • ⋅, ·

They are already being used quite a bit.

  1. By people who type them in directly; especially for non-English languages.
  2. When people press the buttons in the Insert special characters box underneath the edit box.
  3. I, User:ABCD, and others have written scripts to do automatic conversions to the special characters, and now I am worried that I might be doing a bad thing. Is this ok? User:Omegatron/sig 21:38, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
Not exactly sure, I recall some people complaining that "non standard" characters just displayed as question marks in theyr browser, but if they have such a senile old system I don't know if the HTML entities work much better... --Sherool 21:54, 3 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not talking about how it displays. I'm talking about what it looks like in the edit box. If it renders them as question marks then it will replace all special characters with question marks when they save. That would be very bad. User:Omegatron/sig 01:53, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
Problem symbols can better be converted to TeX, or to a symbol that is almost the same, e.g. replace problem symbol "⋅"="⋅" by some other dot. Do you have an overview of the codes you think of converting, and the proposed result of the conversion?--Patrick 02:30, 4 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Converting em/en dash, minus sign, mu/micro, Ω, °, and some other entities to their unicode characters. See also User:ABCD/monobook.js — Omegatron 03:20, 4 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Problem symbols which can better be converted to TeX, or to a symbol that is almost the same, are, for example, those that no not display in Verdana, IE, see the boxes below:

File:Special characters Verdana IE.png--Patrick 10:59, 4 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

See also some problem symbols in m:Image:Special characters under edit box, IE.png.--Patrick 02:43, 4 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Some editing and Wiki tools have problems with Unicode characters. (SEWilco 03:09, 4 November 2005 (UTC))[reply]
Aha! This has already been taken care of.
"After en switched to utf-8 and interwiki bots started replacing html entities in interwikis with literal unicode text, edits that broke unicode characters became so common they could no longer be ignored. A workaround was developed to allow broken browsers to edit safely provided mediawiki knew they were broken.
Browsers listed in the setting $wgBrowserBlackList (a list of regexps that match against user agent strings) are supplied text for editing in a special form. Existing hexadecimal html entities in the page have an extra leading zero added, non-ascii characters that are stored in the wikitext are repreresented as hexadecimal html entities with no leading zeros." - m:Help:Special_characters#The_workaround
So I'm not going to worry about it. It would be nice if we could selectively access the entities version for use in external editors, though. — Omegatron 16:30, 4 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

An Error

The search feature has recently been giving the error

Internal error: no valid response from search server (10.0.0.17)

What does this mean? How can it be fixed? - 42istheanswer 02:20, 4 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

One of the search servers had gotten a bit sluggish with too much memory usage. I've restarted them and they seem happier now. --Brion 06:27, 4 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Search results

I am glad to see search producing article results again. Is there any chance of re-instating the summary text for each result? It was very useful to see context. Thanks. Bobblewik 16:17, 4 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Just found something a bit wierd during a search. Did a search for "Zero day" and the article Zero day was not listed anywhere in the results. Hulleye 11:27, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I am delighted to see the summary text working again. Thanks guys! As far as 'Zero day' is concerned, it went straight to it when I selected the 'Go' button but did not appear in the result list when I used quote characters i.e. "zero day", and selected the 'Search' button. Bobblewik 17:12, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

...Baby One More Time

I cannot access the article on the song "...Baby One More Time" by Britney Spears. I get the error message "The Document contains no data" when I try. I am using Firefox on OS X -- anyone else having this problem? -- I've tried it with safari and it doesn't work there either. -- i sent the link to two of my friends, one running XP and the other on OSX (not sure what their browsers are) and both were able to load. Anyone with any ideas? I first noticed the problem at around 10:30 today -- i've never tried to access the page before so i dont know if this is a new problem for meTastemyHouse 18:18, 4 November 2005 (UTC), edited 18:21[reply]

    • Works for me in Windows XP IE. WauloK 22:41, 4 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
      • this really makes no sense. -- I just set up popups, and if i mouseover the link to the page ...Baby One More Time (single) -- the popup loads fine, and i'm able to click the redirect and get to ...Baby One More Time (song), but i get an error if i try to load the (single) article directly. I dont get it. TastemyHouse 23:31, 4 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
      • Okay! This makes even less sense! I can only get to the ...Baby One More Time (song) article by clicking the link to it in the popup. even though its identical to the link I just placed on this page not 4 minutes ago, if i attempt to get to the article by any means other than clicking on the link in the popup, i get the same error. I can't get to it by typing in the URL of the article directly or by using the "search" box. I can access it ONLY by clicking on the link in the popup. this means that the issue isn't really a problem, since i can access the article... its just... why?! TastemyHouse 23:38, 4 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Romulus Augustus

Can someone please clean up and remove the vandalism on the Wiki article about Romulus Augustus? Also, make it easier to report site vandalism please.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romulus_Augustus

Since anyone can revert vandalism, this usually isn't a problem. To revert vandalism, just click on the history link, at the top of any page, and look for the most recent unvandalised version. When you then edit that out-of-date revision of the article (click on the edit link at the top) and simply click save page. You'll have saved a vandalism free version over the vandalised one. -- Ec5618 23:47, 4 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

My son is trying to make a bibliography card and I don't see anywhere where I would find the author or a date, etc... can you assist?

See Wikipedia:Citing Wikipedia. ~~ N (t/c) 00:57, 5 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm trying to have a Wikilink be generated from a template but the [[ opening brackets interfere with the enclosing template. The entire template becomes displayed instead of only the brackets. {{show1|1=[[}}Horse]] should produce a wikilink to article "Horse". Closing brackets behave as expected. (SEWilco 07:04, 5 November 2005 (UTC))[reply]
  • Second problem: How can a pipe symbol be within a template? '''[[Horse{{show1|<nowiki>|</nowiki>}}Cow]]''' [[Horse|Cow]] does not produce a recognized wikilink. The nowiki seems to be needed to express a pipe symbol within a template, but I think the nowiki is emitted and interpreted within the attempted wikilink. (SEWilco 07:04, 5 November 2005 (UTC))[reply]
  • Incidentally, I just realized a way to work around these problems, at least for my situation. Created Template:Wikilink which contains the troublesome characters in raw form so they don't need to be part of a process to assemble a Wikilink. {{wikilink|Horse|Cow}}: Horse (SEWilco 07:28, 5 November 2005 (UTC))[reply]
Why do you need either of these templates? ~~ N (t/c) 02:16, 6 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, what were you trying to do with the original template? Superm401 | Talk 03:33, 6 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Optional Authorlink parameter on Template:Book reference for linking to an author's Wikipedia article. Original attempts involved inserting the troublesome characters where appropriate. (SEWilco 04:11, 6 November 2005 (UTC))[reply]

bot to delete self reference redirects

Looking through WP:RFD, there are many votes for deletion of redirects to the wikipedia namespace to WP:ASR. I propose there to be a bot to search for redirects from the main to the wikipedia namespace and to delete them. There could be other combinations as well between various namespaces. Can this be done? --Zondor 19:17, 5 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]


Loss of session data

I've been getting this error all day, and logging out and back in doesn't make it go away. Server troubles?

Sorry! We could not process your edit due to a loss of session data. Please try again. If it still doesn't work, try logging out and logging back in. --Rayc 22:46, 5 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

You could try deleting all your wikipedia.org cookies. --cesarb 04:56, 6 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Error is back

The "Internal error: no valid response from search server (10.0.0.17)" error is back. -42istheanswer 04:45, 6 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

So it is. Personally, I just always use a google site search. I.E. "site:en.wikipedia.org <terms here>". Superm401 | Talk 04:51, 6 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Kates Tool

I have just used Kates Tool and it only credited me with 592 when the last time I checked I had 617. That is 25 edits lost. I don't want to lose edits. Help. Thanks.--Dakota t e 08:18, 6 November 2005 (UTC) [reply]

(replied on Wikipedia talk:Kate's Tool. kate)

y with macron problem

y with macron, ȳ, Unicode 233 hex, which is used in Old English morphology, appears as a box on my computer even though it is enclosed in Template Unicode. The same problem occurs with Template IPA: ȳ

I use MSIE 6.0, and my fonts include Arial Unicode MS, Microsoft Sans Serif.

The problem appears to be that Arial Unicode MS appears before Microsoft Sans Serif in MediaWiki:Common.css, but Arial Unicode MS doesn't support codes 218-24F. --teb728 10:46, 6 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

You should ask about it at Template talk:Unicode. --cesarb 18:52, 6 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia Source Code

Hi; Is the source code open? Where do I find it? TIA, beno

Yes, it is. See Mediawiki, our article about the software that runs Wikipedia. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 22:51, 6 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Or perhaps more usefully, http://www.mediawiki.org. Rob Church Talk 19:55, 9 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Tabs

I've noticed that the tabs at the Spanish Wikipedia have a little bend in the upper-right corner, which makes them look more like tabs. Just wondering, is there a reason why we don't do that here? Because the site would look a little bit nicer in my opinion. Titoxd(?!?) 05:44, 7 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

It's a Mozilla CSS extension - not guaranteed to work on all browsers, and besides, we've ALWAYS had square tabs. If you want, you can add the following to your monobook.css:
.pBody 
{
   padding: 0.3em 0.1em;
   -moz-border-radius-topright: 0.5em;
}
.portlet h5 
{
   background-color: #e0e3e6;
   border: thin solid silver;
   -moz-border-radius-topright: 0.5em;
}
#p-cactions ul li, #p-cactions ul li a 
{  
  -moz-border-radius-topright: 0.5em;
/*  -moz-border-radius-topleft: 0.5em; */
}
#content
{
  -moz-border-radius-topleft: 0.5em;
}
HTH, Alphax τεχ 08:37, 7 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Confirmation prompt for cache purge

Why do we now have a page asking us if we really want to purge the cache for a specific page? Are users really purging too often? It seems to me that the confirmation page would add more to the server load as it has to load and display the new intermediate page before taking action. slambo 16:26, 7 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Note that this only happens on certain pages - i.e., those that are large but frequently visited and frequently modified (like WP:AFD's subpages, for instance). I don't fully understand the technical side of these things, but I can see that if the cache was purged every time someone visited those pages it might actually be more strain than only doing so intermittently when asked. Grutness...wha? 23:51, 7 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
It needs to be a POST request so that search engine spiders don't purge our cache when they follow the links that people seem to be putting everywhere. Humans can hit the button as often as they like, within reason, I don't think that'll cause any significant server strain. Feel free to add a purge tab using user javascript, like what Alphax has done: User:Alphax/monobook.js. -- Tim Starling 04:19, 8 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
If it is indeed mostly if not entirely due to the spiders is there a way to bypass it using your custom js file? Jtkiefer T | @ | C ----- 19:49, 9 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Limit search to own watchlist

In the search tool we can limit a search to specific namespaces. Is it possible somehow to limit a search to the pages on one's own watchlist? If not, is this bug-worthy? --Eddi (Talk) 01:33, 8 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

It's not possible now, and while you can make an enhancement request at http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org , I don't think the developers will make it a priority. Superm401 | Talk 01:43, 8 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Image tag won't work

OK, I know I'm going to make a fool of myself when someone points out some really obvious thing I've missed, but I've tried. Can anyone explain why the image tag at the top of the section at http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Condom&oldid=27243082#Proper_use is not working? Even if reduced to an absolute minimum of parameters (i.e., just using the image name), all you get is a link. The link works and the image is there, but it does not show up as intended on the page. I even tried moving it somewhere else on the page (right to the top) in case some bug was causing a problem with an open tag somewhere, but the same thing happens.

The mark-up:

[[Image:CondomUse.jpg|thumb|100px|right|Male condom application.]]

results in:

<a href="/wiki/Image:CondomUse.jpg" title="Image:CondomUse.jpg">thumb|100px|right|Male condom application.</a>

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.

--Craig (t|c) 04:53, 8 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm. Since I've tried inserting the image the regular way, I presume it is on the Bad image list. I'll check. Titoxd(?!?) 05:51, 8 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
There it is: MediaWiki:Bad image list. Sorry, it just can't be placed there. Titoxd(?!?) 05:52, 8 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Interesting. Thanks. On that page it says, "These images are prohibited by technical means from being displayed inline in articles." Is it just my imagination, or is it sheer coincidence that all of the images (a grand total of 7 of them) that cannot be displayed in-line for "technical" reasons, all display the human male penis? There are plenty of other such images in relevant articles, so I'm at a loss to see the technical reason for this. Any idea? --Craig (t|c) 13:27, 8 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I just re-read that. It says "... by technical means..." not "... for technical reasons...". Still my question stands. In the penis article there are other pictures (some copies of the "bad images") displayed in-line, so the existence of this list seems very odd to me. Still interested in comments from someone who knows why this list exists. Thanks. --Craig (t|c) 13:31, 8 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
That list includes images which are often used on vandalism. The original reason for the creation of that hidden MediaWiki feature is still the first image on the list, Image:Autofellatio 2.jpg. The images displayed inline on penis are reduced versions of the full-sized images (which are on the list), which makes them less useful for vandalism (it doesn't have the same effect as a full-sized one would). And no, I have no idea why the images most often used on vandalism are images of the human male penis. --cesarb 14:10, 8 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, OK. Thanks for the explanation. --Craig (t|c) 14:49, 8 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Complex templates

On the Jehovah's Witnesses pages, we're trying to get a way to link to online JW Bible translation, and I'm wondering if it's possible to get this done in a template like {{NWT-Lookup|book=Ecclesiastes|chapter=9|verses=5-6}}. Problem is the url format is rather complex:

http://watchtower.org/bible/ec/chapter_009.htm?bk=ec;chp=9;vs=5-6;citation#bk5 (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6)

The chapter and verses are straightforward, but the book names are abbreviated, and it would be a pain to ask Wikipedians to remember the JW abbreviations. It would be great to be able to convert full names to the required abbreviations in the template. Is this possible? If not, is there any other way of getting it done? --K. AKA Konrad West TALK 03:44, 9 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

{{bible_jw_abbrev}} will have the value contained in [[Template:bible_jw_abbrev]]. Understand what happens if you use a variable instead of "abbrev"? The method is used to alias country names in {{flag|US}}:  US (SEWilco 05:34, 9 November 2005 (UTC))[reply]
Thanks for the tip; I've got {{LookupNWT}} working with at User:Konrad West/LookupNWT#Testing. Only problem is that the URL requires the chapter in a 3-digit leading zero format and a plain format. I can't work out a way to get the 3-digit version from the plain; any ideas? --K. AKA Konrad West TALK 01:40, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
In templates the only apparent solution requires 99 aliasing templates. Examine whether the target web site has a search capability which has a simpler URL incantation. (SEWilco 01:53, 10 November 2005 (UTC))[reply]
Yep, thought so. Thanks for the help! --K. AKA Konrad West TALK 03:09, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
With the special trick of m:Help:Template_names,_variable_names_and_parameters_depending_on_a_variable_or_parameter#Alternative_method, three templates are enough.--Patrick 11:05, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Signature templates

Maybe this isn't the best place to ask, but I couldn't find anywhere else to. I usually sign conversations with a template to avoid tedious typing. However, my signature lacks the date. At first, I tried {{CURRENTDATE}} and {{subst:CURRENTDATE}}, but these constantly refresh, not indicating the original posting time. What variable should I put in my template to timestamp my signature? Also, is there a way I can make a personal shortcut to my signature? - ElAmericano | talk 05:37, 9 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it's easier if you don't use templates for your signature, but rather copying the contents of your template subpage to the "Nickname" box in your Preferences, and clicking on the "Raw Signature" checkbox. That's the way I produce my triple-link signature. Titoxd(?!?) 05:47, 9 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
To make mine(nearly identical to the way you just signed), I put "[[User:Superm401|Superm401]] | [[User_talk:Superm401|Talk]]" as my nickname and checked "raw signatures". Then I just sign ~~~~. --Superm401 | Talk 07:23, 9 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Personally I'm not a fan of signature templates because any changes to signatures are not captured in time as they evolve; you can only see what they look like at present. In contrast I can take a glance at something I signed myself and guess that I wrote it 12-15 months ago, even without checking the date. (Additionally I suspect server strain whenever the templates are edited, but that's probably not a big issue...?) Anyway, without templates and even without the "raw" property we can still have non-trivial signatures by putting a code like "nickname]] [[user talk:username|<small>(Talk)</small>" in the nickname field. (Without the "raw" property, the leading "[[user:username|" and the trailing "]]" are implied.) When signing, ~~~ gives just the nickname, while ~~~~ gives the nickname plus time and date. --Eddi (Talk) 14:43, 9 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, transcluded signatures are a real drain on things. Users should avoid using them; there's some presently informal discussion between some developers as to whether we should cut down on the markup allowed in signatures. Rob Church Talk 19:53, 9 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, I appreciate all the advice. I had no idea you could format the signature box like that. - ElAmericano | talk 01:33, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Broken redirects

A lot of redirects are listed on Special:BrokenRedirects because they have a weird non-template after them: 

#REDIRECT Decision tree Template:R from part of subject

is typical. Why are they there? Is it OK to just remove the stuff after the last "]" ? -- SGBailey 17:35, 9 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

This is an attempt to categorize redirects, so that we can filter them if necessary. (For instance, for a print Wikipedia, we might want to build an index that includes redirects for common alternate names, but not for misspellings). In the past, additional text could be included after a redirect link, so long as it was on the same line (before a line break), so that's where the redirect templates were placed. This functionality was broken during the MediaWiki 1.4 upgrade -- a bug has been filed Bug 927. These may need to be deleted, but talk to the people at Wikipedia_talk:Template_messages/Redirect_pages before you do it; they've done a lot of work that would be hard to recover if it turns out there is a technical fix for this. — Catherine\talk 19:08, 9 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

List of subpages

Is it possible to somehow get a list of all subpages an article has? In this case, it's Portal:Politics - I just wanted to clear out unnecessary ones and know which ones I can use etc. Many thanks, --HighHopes (T)⋅(+)⋅(C)⋅(E)⋅(P) 20:05, 9 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Try poking around with Special:Allpages, specifically this search... Shimgray | talk | 20:11, 9 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
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