Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2005 September 8

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Instantnood (talk | contribs) at 11:13, 12 September 2005 (→[[Category:Political entities]]: reply to Huaiwei). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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September 8

Category:Roman Catholic directors

Unhelpful category, with potential for controversy. Only one entry so far anyway.

Category:Notable people from St. Petersburg, Florida

Not sure if it should be renamed or deleted. At a minimum, I know that we don't want the word Notable in category names. But there is also only one person in the category, so I'm not sure it makes sense to keep it at all. TexasAndroid 22:23, 8 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete. One article does not make a cat, and to add other articles to it would be overcategorization. By state is specific enough usually, imho. Plus, as the nom says, we don't put such adjectives in cat titles. -Splash 00:15, 9 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Persian words

Appears to be a duplicate of Category:Arabic words. The only entry is in both categories. TexasAndroid 22:09, 8 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Ottawa Senators

Empty category. TexasAndroid 22:06, 8 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Plumbates

Empty category. (Another chemical one, so there may be hope for this one getting populated by someone with the correct knowledge.) TexasAndroid 21:29, 8 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Pre-partition Biographies

Empty Category. TexasAndroid 20:16, 8 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Products

Category:Products:primary
Category:Products (primary)

Submitting these three linked categories. Even looking at the three articles contained in the first one, I cannot make any sense of these things. If anyone can make these things useful, more power to you. But if not, they look to me to simply be an unneeded mess. TexasAndroid 20:10, 8 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Radar Processing

Empty Category. TexasAndroid 18:45, 8 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Raï albums

Empty Category. TexasAndroid 18:13, 8 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Realm of Sweden

Empty category. No idea what this is/was about, so I don't feel 100% confident tossing it up for Speedy. So I'll put it here instead just in case there's some reason it should be salvaged. TexasAndroid 18:10, 8 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment The term Realm of Foo is used to refer to all territories that share the same monarch as Foo, and for which Foo is seen as the superior entity. While Sweden has no such territories now, the territories that it held in the Holy Roman Empire would have been seen as such, and thus part of the Realm of Sweden but not the Kingdom of Sweden. The category is thus either a duplicate or a parent of the existing Category:Dominions of Sweden depending how one views the other Unions that the Swedish crown has been involved in such as that with Norway in the 19th century. I don't know enough about Swedish history to know if the term Dominions of Sweden is restricted in meaning so that the two categories should not be the same. Caerwine 00:36, 10 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • speedy delete Properly covered by Category:Historical_provinces_of_Sweden and/or Category:Lands_of_Sweden, it's empty anyway so get rid of it. --Sherool 00:39, 11 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Benedictine College

Category:Residential Colleges
Category:Liberal Arts Colleges
Category:Catholic universities
Category:Catholic Liberal Arts Colleges
Category:Catholic colleges

Here we go again. One article, five categories created that have only the same one article as their only member. Sorry, but no. (Like the last similar one, I'm not submitting the article for deletion, only the categories.) TexasAndroid 17:16, 8 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Richard Harrison films

Empty category. Could be populated, but I haven't been able to find any other examples of "Film by Actor" categories. So, while theoretically usable, I don't see where it fits in the current category structure. TexasAndroid 16:53, 8 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Television dramas

I created this category before realizing Category:Drama television series already exists. Mea culpa.

Deleted. Niteowlneils 22:42, 8 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Political entities

This category was created by user:Huaiwei and populated with subcategories previously under category:countries (see special:recentchangeslinked/category:political entities starting from Sept 8 or Huaiwei's edit history). She/he has a record of equating countries with sovereign states, and removing/relocating non-sovereign territories from lists or categories by countries. Relevant policy: WP:POINT. — Instantnood 11:26, September 8, 2005 (UTC) (modified 11:45, September 8, 2005 (UTC))

  • Reject nomination "Political entities" is a far more nuetral and all-encompassing term then to have all kinds of political units classified under "countries". I do not see the above as being "disruptive" behavior at all. May I also remind to nominate a category based on its worth, rather then to judge it based on its editor.--Huaiwei 12:00, 8 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment: I agree "political entities" is far more encompassing, but it is so all-encompassing that it can be everything from counties, townships to provinces (subnational entities), and colonies, protectorates, dependent territories, sovereign states, and even supranational organisations like the EU. The original category was intended for what the word "country" in English may include. The English word "country" carries little connotations.. don't think it's less neutral than "political entities". — Instantnood 18:31, September 8, 2005 (UTC)
      • Comment: That is precisely the point. It is meant to be all encompassing. And yes, it does allow contemporary entities like the EU to appear there as well. Does that apply to the term country? No, so in what way is classifing all the above you list as countries any better? You say the word "country" carries little connotations. Look in the article for country, and please tell me if that is true. And yes, please also validify your statement that the term country is as nuetral as "political entities".--Huaiwei 20:57, 8 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
        • Your edits was in effect re-defining the word country. From when on non-sovereign territories are not countries, and only sovereign states are? — Instantnood 07:32, September 9, 2005 (UTC)
          • I simply do not think I am redefining anything. As already explained in the country article, we DO have exceptions, but notice they all connote the idea of self-determination, and the utilisation of the word to connote a desire for an increased level of independence to that of a "normal" country. I do not think I dispute this fact at all, and I even helped contribute to this text. However, to then make use of this definition to call all dependencies, subnational entities, special territories, enclaves, exclaves, and what have you is clearly pushing this way too far. Have wikipedia become an advocate in refering to all political entities as countries as thou we are advocating greater self-determination for all? You claim doing so is nuetral. Are you sure calling Tibet a country is a politically nuetral statement, compared to calling it a political entity which does not specify its status in anyway? You call for all views to be heard. May I then also remind the related policy for NPOV. (You appear to exhort the virtue of NPOV when it works your way, Mainland China comes immediately to mind. Yet i am surprised you are suddenly willing to let it take a backseat in this discussion. The double standard is disturbing.)--Huaiwei 12:14, 9 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
        • What you are saying is like as though I were the one to have categorised subnational entities and all those things into category:countries to illustrate my point of view. No I didn't do it.. the fact is that I am totally uninvolved in these categories. I did not advocate any form of greater self determination either, and as far as I can recall nobody has ever said ordinary subnational entities, be it provinces, counties.., are countries. Please go ask a true native speaker of English what the word "country" means. — Instantnood 17:49, September 9, 2005 (UTC)
          • I dont think I am saying you are involved in those edits. However, there is no escaping the fact that you have consistently tried to include Hong Kong in country lists and categories, and extended this to other forms of subnational entitis, dependencies, and the like when this effort was opposed. You justify your political agenda in highlighting HK's autonomy from the rest of the PRC by insisting that Country = political entities, thus implying that Hong Kong is a country despite the one country, two systems formular which paves the way for the Hong Kong handover in 1997. Does this not describe the works of a nationalist, as described in the country article? My call to use "political entities" is much more nuetral, and does not advance the political views of any party, not even my own. By avoiding a political label, we avoid future complications on the status of political entities. In fact, we may even consider using this phrase in place of "XXX by country" throughout wikipedia. Is there any valid reason to counter this?--Huaiwei 10:55, 12 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
        • The real side of the fact is that nobody has ever said ordinary subnational entities are countries. And no.. it was you who insisted countries ≡ sovereign states. — Instantnood 11:13, September 12, 2005 (UTC)
  • Definition of country from the Oxford English Dictionary: "The territory or land of a nation; usually an independent state, or a region once independent and still distinct in race, language, institutions, or historical memories, as England, Scotland, and Ireland, in the United Kingdom, etc." or "A tract or district having more or less definite limits in relation to human occupation. e.g. owned by the same lord or proprietor, or inhabited by people of the same race, dialect, occupation, etc". Countries was therefore fine before without added complications. Delete. -- Necrothesp 18:22, 9 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • It is ironic we are now refering back to a dictionary definition when Instantnood himself has been consistently rejected them for a more all-encompassing one. May I remind, that our own article on Country does not state that every political entity is a country. Do we intend to incorporate the above definition into it? Note from the article, that "Sometimes, the term is used more loosely by nationalists, or by those that sympathise with that nationalist cause, to refer to parts of states with a distinct history, culture, or political view.". Are we therefore playing the role of nationalists now?--Huaiwei 10:41, 12 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete The category system should not be used to express or enforce unusual points of view. CalJW 20:57, 10 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete As above. Osomec 17:19, 11 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Stoned_and_toped

Stoned_and_toped is an article about a series of parties where kids get drunk and stoned, with no context to suggest that these are in any way notable. There's an 'artists impression' in the form of a movie poster, but no evidence that such a movie exists. Googling the term turns up very little. Unless anyway can assert that these parties are notably huge, this has to go. TheMadBaron 10:47, 8 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Piedmont/Piemonte

This Italian region is known as Piedmont in English, and that is what the article itself is called, but the categories are inconsistent. category:Piedmont already exists. I would like to see the following changes:

This is just the same as calling Roma Rome and Milano Milan and hopefully is not controversial. London is spelled around 20 different ways in various Wikipedias. CalJW 03:15, 8 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

No vote yet. The weird thing about this is that there are plenty of Italian regions for which there are no Anglicized versions (Abruzzi, Calabria, etc. So it feels worrisome to me to be referring to some by Anglicized names and the others by their Italian names. So part of me leans towards being consistent. It feels to me like cities "stand alone" in some sense that regions do not. On the pro-rename side, I note that Category:Tuscany already exists, as does Category:Brittany instead of Category:Bretagne. So there seems to be precedent. Nandesuka 04:24, 8 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The only difficulty I see is that unlike Tuscany or Brittany, the name Piedmont is used for other regions with similar geography, most notably Piedmont (United States) which is what I think of when I hear the unqualified term, but then I live there. On the other hand, context should be sufficient to alert people that the region in Italy is what is meant, if Category:Piedmont is used Caerwine 05:04, 8 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Although I agree that the English name for this place is Piedmont, and that would be the sensible name for the category, I also agree with Caerwine that it has become a generic term for any major set of foothills. Might I suggest the compromise of Category: Italian Piedmont or Category:Piedmont (Italy)? Grutness...wha? 07:35, 8 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • What about category:Piedmont, Italy? — Instantnood 18:20, September 8, 2005 (UTC)
  • Where is it a generic name? I've never heard about that. Rename it Piedmont, Italy if it will otherwise be confusing for some people. This encyclopedia should certainly be written in English. Carina22 22:07, 8 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • Where is it not a generic name? The term piedmont is used to refer to the foothills of many chains of mountains. The term is also used in geology as an adjective, meaning formed in or as foothills. Grutness...wha? 01:36, 9 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
      • I don't think it's well known in the UK. I got an A in A Level geography when that still meant something, and I'd forgotten this until it was mentioned. In the UK non professional-geographers/geologists call foothills foothills. It may be different in New Zealand where you have bigger mountains. CalJW 20:55, 10 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • No, they're foothills here, too. But geologists in particular use the word piedmont as a generic term worldwide, and I'm fairly sure geographers do too. Grutness...wha? 06:18, 12 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
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