Talk:Center for Talented Youth

Ok, can someone please rewrite the article under CTY Culture? I've never been to CTY; I've just investigated the program thoroughly in an attempt to persuade my parents to let me enter the program (thus explaiing why I added info). However, it's a bit different from the culture at CTY, which deserves its own special category. -Simfish 04:37, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Nonsense?

Here are the parts that were deleted as nonsense, with removed parts italicized. Could any CTYers confirm or refute these, especially the chant during "American Pie"? Also, the 1991 and 1993 events are way before my time (one session in 1997). I know they do look like nonsense, but putting a bunch of gifted kids in one place does lead to some strange traditions and happenings. --Christopherlin 07:58, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

CTY culture

Many CTY sites are home to their own unique traditions; however, the one shared by all the sites is the playing of the song "American Pie" at the end of a dance. In general, this involves a special dance which also includes appending a chant of "die, die, die, die, live, live, live, live, sex, sex, sex, war, war, war, war" to the end of the chorus. Some sites, including Franklin and Marshall College in Lancaster, PA, Dickinson College, and Saratoga Springs in NY have a special list of songs that are played at every dance. This list is known as the Canon.

There has long been animosity between ballerinas, known as "rinas" (female) or "rhinos" (male) of the Central Pennsylvania Youth Ballet Association and CTY students at Dickinson College in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, and Skidmore College in Saratoga Springs, New York.

CTY scandals

One of the downsides to the CTY program has to do with the controversial association between brilliance and mental illness; put enough talented children in one place and at least one will do something crazy.

There was reportedly a suicide at the Saratoga Springs site in 1991, and a scandal involving nutmeg overdoses at the Los Angeles site in 1993.

I can confirm the American Pie chant, at least at F&M, 1993-1996. I was there as a CTY student. I believe the chant was slightly different, though: we only said three "die"s, as Don McLean said the first one for us. And I think we said "more" instead of "war". There were four "sex"s, too. There were many more responses that got shouted throughout the rest of the song as well.

As for the scandals, I don't remember hearing about those two. But yes, all those smart kids together does unhinge a few of them. I'd say there is an association between brilliance and social isolation, and then between social isolation and mental illness. So some are already very troubled. On top of that, many CTYers experience the summer as a relative social and intellectual paradise. Knowing they have to go back to their normal lives is a big stressor. --69.143.126.105 05:54, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

69.143.126.105 is me. Just created an account! Looking back there, I see you were probably looking just for factual confirmation of the suicide/nutmeg overdose, Christopherlin, rather than an opinion on whether they could have happened. -JRootabega 06:19, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

One of the pages created by CTY alums had their page in black in mourning over a CTY suicide. I can't find it on http://web.archive.org right now though.--Bramboro

No, its not nonsense. Having gone to both Carlisle (Dickinson) and Lancaster (F&M), I can say that the statements about the "rinas and rhinos" as well as the chant are mostly correct. It is not "war, war, war, war", however, but rather "more, more, more, more". For verification, one could check with the CTY community at LiveJournal. There is a such thing as a canon, as well. I have never heard of a suicide attempt, however, either that livejournal community, or this one could perhaps explicate on the matter. - DavidIzzo

Yeah, the ballerina thing and the chant are both true, both are still going on at Carlisle as of last summer. Also, how about the kid who changed the entire Dickinson computer network to Flemish, and they had to basically reformat everything because no one could read flemish. Bonus Onus 04:54, Mar 8, 2005 (UTC)

I can confirm the chant for LMU. It was four dies, four lives, four sexes, and four mores. It did run into the next few lines of the song. Maeglin Lómion 04:53, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I can confirm the ballerina thing at Carlisle, but I've helped with it a bit seeing as how I'm a CTYer who is also a rhino. I also have friends who are rhinos who attend the Central Pennsylvania Youth Ballet summer program for five weeks, and one of them actually dated a friend of mine from CTY for four months, so I think the animosity has been eased a bit between CTYers and rinas/rhinos.

Nomores vs. Nevermores

Can anyone confirm which is which? The page currently says nevermores can't come back (too old) and nomores choose not to come back. I thought it was the reverse, as that is what most people at Carlisle call them. It could be different at different sites, as the names are inherently too similar. Bonus Onus 04:54, Mar 8, 2005 (UTC)

At LMU, Nomore is a very rarely used term. Nevermore is usually used for both cases; it is technically used for too-old people. Maeglin Lómion 04:51, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Skidmore (Saratoga) has a very clear definition that agrees with the current page Bonus Onus cited. I don't remember hearing the term in Lancaster though. — Ambush Commander^(Talk) 01:44, July 20, 2005 (UTC)

Siena's definitions also agree with those currently on the page and those at Skidmore. --TD Mak 02:26 August 26, 2005 (EST)

Early history of CTY

CTY was originally OTID (Office of Talent Identification and Development) back in 1980-1982.

The 7-11 grade residential colleges were the first programs. Before 1980, there was also the Study of Mathematically Precocious Youth (SMPY, see for example http://www.jhu.edu/~jhumag/0400web/16.html), and I think there was a Program for Verbally Gifted Youth (PVGY). The first residential colleges were Saint Mary's in Maryland (1980-1981) and then Franklin and Marshall and Dickinson in Pennsylvania.

"Rina" was a nickname in use all the way back to at least 1984.

The "American Pie" tradition was not part of CTY back in 1980-1984.

Cross-dressing at CTY may have originated in F&M in 1983. For the big CTY dance, the staff provided ties for the boys. The girls wanted ties too and the staff said, "only if you can find boys who will wear skirts."

Many of the CTY student traditions were solidified after the 1980-1984 period by Matthew Belmonte.