Talk:Ivar Kreuger
 | Biography Start‑class | ||||||
| |||||||
Discussion page for Ivar Kreuger: Please append any new comments to the BOTTOM of the page. Thankyou
question
Most of the statements in this article are, if not intirely false, deliberately misleading, no wonder if you see the book written by his brother as only source for it. The brother, obviously biased, tried in the 1960s to whitewash the memory of Ivar Kreuger. For better comprehension I suggest to read the book "The Incredible Ivar Kreuger" by Allen Churchill. Kraxler 21:22, 4 October 2006 (UTC).
- The author that knows most about Ivar Kreuger is the swedish banker and author, Lars-Erik Thunholm (1914-2006). He wrote the book Ivar Kreuger, published by T. Fischer & Co, Stockholm 1995. ISBN 91 7054 757 2. I don't think this book has been translated into english. He was the CEO for the company Swedish Match lots of years and spent his entire life in the same "world" as Ivar Kreuger. If you are looking for the "truth" read this book. That's as close as you can get.
- One more hint: He was an extremly intelligent man. The only thing he was really interested in was his companies and to see them grow but he kept all of the key parts to himself.
- The book refered to above does exist in English!. See reference list in the article.
- One more hint: He was an extremly intelligent man. The only thing he was really interested in was his companies and to see them grow but he kept all of the key parts to himself.
- The author that knows most about Ivar Kreuger is the swedish banker and author, Lars-Erik Thunholm (1914-2006). He wrote the book Ivar Kreuger, published by T. Fischer & Co, Stockholm 1995. ISBN 91 7054 757 2. I don't think this book has been translated into english. He was the CEO for the company Swedish Match lots of years and spent his entire life in the same "world" as Ivar Kreuger. If you are looking for the "truth" read this book. That's as close as you can get.
new discussion
I believe one should not put lines like the one below on top of pages in articles about persons. This statement is entirely one angry newspaper editors opinion. The line is a serious accusation to someone that cannot defend himself. It looks like he was a swindler his entire life. He was a victime of the circumstanes of the time close to WW2 and may have been swindling to some degree the last couple of years 1931-1932, trying to save the empire due to dramatically negative actions from the bankers, but was definitly not a swindler all his life. All large companies in all times have been "swindling" from time to time. No company is perfect.
From the article: "He also operated one of the largest pyramid schemes ever, defrauding $400M from his investors. The Economist dubbed him "The World's Greatest Swindler".
If someone wish to keep the line, put it somewhere else below a headline, something about "media reports..." after his death. Before his death, when everyone that owned Kreuger shares, were increasing their private fortune, no one said anything negative.Lidingo SWE (talk) 09:47, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
- One could compare the size of Kreuger & Toll Holding relative to other corporations 1930 with the Microsoft corporation today. Lidingo SWE (talk) 10:19, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
- I have again removed the Economist articles, it's closer to science fiction than the real story. --Gargamelik (talk) 05:27, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
- One could compare the size of Kreuger & Toll Holding relative to other corporations 1930 with the Microsoft corporation today. Lidingo SWE (talk) 10:19, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
I'm sorry to have to contradict you, Lidingo. When he transferred the responsibility for the construction business to Paul Toll and started his financial and match business about 1912, he began swindling and continued until the end. His motives might have been excusable or understandable, but all his business transactions from then on had a fraudulent touch or were outright criminal according to the law. He never had anything even one tenth the size of Microsoft, since he spent all the assets whenever he got them, and had only numbers on pieces of paper, but no money to show. And, yes, the people who got the Kreuger & Toll stock which paid 50% interest a year, after 2 years (in theory) got their money back, and could not really complain of their original stock's total loss of value in 1932, but the much larger portion of people had invested and re-invested their money in more stock (the classical pyramid, or snow-ball scheme) and lost their life's savings in the middle of the depression. So, we better let the introductory sentence stand, as it is the plain truth, and not just the "angry opinion of one person". Finally, he himself chose not to defend himself, since he could have "explained" everything in the courts of law, instead of shooting himself. Kraxler (talk) 17:27, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
- Kraxler: There are many fact errors in your text, for example K&T didn't pay 50% in interest/per, that's FUD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear%2C_uncertainty_and_doubt). I suggest you read those two books: "Därför mördades Ivar Kreuger" (ISBN 91-7055-019-0) and "Kreuger-Mordet: En utredning med nya fakta" (ISBN 91-630-9780-X). I also suggest that you read: http://www.dsm.nu/kreuger/mordet.htm, http://www.bankrattsforeningen.org.se/kreuger.html and http://www.politiskamord.com/. Please read those and then we can have a real discussion ;) --Gargamelik (talk) 04:10, 4 April 2008 (UTC)