Talk:Software protection dongle
Since when is the word crack more professional than hack? -- Viajero 15:11, 27 Oct 2003 (UTC)
Origin of name, etc.
Because the word "dongle" sounds funny, it arouses curiosity about its origins, and I feel that the article should discuss this. So I added the note about it not being derived from any fictional eponymous "Don Gall." said the true origin was unknown, because I personally have not seen anything convincing.
I'm thinking of adding something more. Proposed wording:
- The name 'dongle' is often perceived as slightly undignified, disrespectful, or indicating a distaste for the device. Vendors of dongles and dongle-protected software usually use more dignified terms in their written literature, such as "hardware key" or "security device." Nevertheless "dongle" is prevalent outside of such literature, and is used in informal parlance even by dongle vendors.
(My personal perception is that the word "dongle" is intentionally disrespectful, and that it is probably a portmanteau of "dangle" and "dong." Of course I have no evidence for this conjecture).
And should entries for "hardware key" and "security device" be created and redirected to "dongle?"
It seems to me that putting the article under the entry "dongle" without any further discussion represents a subtly non-neutral point of view. (One that I happen to agree with. Vehemently. Personally I believe dongles are the spawn of the Devil and should be consigned to the deepest reaches of perdition).
Thoughts?
Dpbsmith 18:08, 27 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- I don't know the origin of the name, but it's been called a dongle since the 70s at least. I think your perception of it being a play on "dangle" and "dong" are probably not far off, programmer types being the people they are ;-) I imagine the very earliest dongles were probably jury-rigged affairs that consisted of a bit of veroboard hanging out of the back of an RS-232 or parallel port plug on the end of a bunch of wires; they would definitely dangle! Later productionised versions probably looked a lot neater, being not much bigger than an inline port gender-changer. Modern USB dongles have gone back to dangling though - they sometimes have a short flexible lead, though other types are rigid and look like USB key memories. As for the redirect, I'd support "hardware key", but not "security device" - it's too general. GRAHAMUK 23:31, 27 Oct 2003 (UTC)
I'm not sure that enumerating examples of software types that have dongles helps much - I can think of a number of others I happen to know use dongles, but by listing them makes it seem as if these are exclusively using dongles, whereas the reality is that any software could use a dongle, if its vendors so chose. GRAHAMUK 01:35, 28 Oct 2003 (UTC)
I sorta like the enumeration...
...That wasn't my addition, but I think it's fairly appropriate. I see your point, but concrete examples do help to clarify the way in which dongles are typically used. The choice of examples in a case like this is always arbitrary. But I that giving a few examples is more helpful that just saying "expensive programs" or "low-volume programs used by professionals" or whatever.
In explaining what gasoline is used for, it's helpful to say that it is typically used in motor vehicles and aircraft, even though it potentially has many other uses....
Just my $0.02
Dpbsmith 03:21, 28 Oct 2003 (UTC)
"The word "dongle," as a word for something unnamed (akin to "doodad" or "whatchamacallit") has been used since the 1970s."
Hmmm, is there any evidence for this? I think the term exists solely to refer to the software protection device, not just any old unnamed thingy. Now, the jargon file reference cited says that the first dongle appeared in 1984. I dispute this - I can distinctly recall the term being used in connection to some mainframe stuff that I saw being done at ICL in about 1978 - or was it Honeywell, I'm not sure now. They were definitely talking about it in reference to a device used to "protect" software. In was a passive device that hooked up a parallel port in such a way that if you wrote a value to it, it would readback a different value - that was considered adequate protection back in those innocent days! Perhaps the term originated as some internal name but didn't reach a wider public until the 80s - who knows? GRAHAMUK 05:46, 28 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Going back to my school years in Australia (late 60s, early 70s) the term "dongle" was local slang for the male appendage. Given the above description of early computer dongles I suggest an easy parallel could be drawn. ;-) Gaz 10:44, 28 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- I had wondered about your addition myself. As I noted in above, I've always perceived "dongle" to be a portmanteau of "dong" (slang in the U. S. for the male appendage) and "dangle." I've never heard it used in the generic sense of "watchamacallit" (which is a good, common, familiar U.S. colloquialism, synonymous with "thingamabob.").
- I just checked Wentworth and Flexner's Dictionary of American Slang and it indeed has a short entry, "dong [taboo] n. The penis" but no entry for "dongle."
- If we have a reasonably good idea where the word came from, we should say so, but I don't think we should put in something euphemistic and false. If "dongle" meant "watchamacallit" in sixties Australia, fine. If it meant "penis" in sixties Australia, we should not say that it meant "watchamacallit" (unless, of course, watchamacallit clearly means penis, which it doesn't—not to me, anyway. Although perhaps all these "watchamacallits" and "thingamabobs" have a double meaning?
- Does a mention of the Wentworth and Flexner definition of "dong" belong in this article?
- Dpbsmith 11:02, 28 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- No, I think the reference is not clear enough to put anything in the main page. I just checked the Macquarie Dictionary (THE Aussie reference) and it too includes "dong" as slang for penis. It also contains "donger" to mean the same thing. So maybe, "dongle" was just local to where I grew up. I'll leave this edit with a choice piece of Aussie slang that I am sure would roll off the tongue of Croc Dundee... "...as dry as a dead dingo's donger!!" Gaz 11:20, 28 Oct 2003 (UTC)