Talk:100 Greatest Britons

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How can 2 non-Britons get onto the greatest Britons ever list? Anybody? Mike



So how many people took part? Millions or thousands?86.42.203.104 17:28, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Diana is greater than Shakespeare :) Until today I believed the BBC was serious radio.

Ericd 21:37 Mar 24, 2003 (UTC) --Ditto Ditto Ditto!! I'm forced to scream in agreement about the silliness of this list. Princess Diana greater than Shakespeare, than Isaac Newton, than Stephen Hawking? than Queen Victoria? than Elizabeth I or Elizabeth II? And what is Boy George doing on this list? (get back to thine closet!!) Too many people have been infected by the cult of personality!!

It was a pretty silly list IMO :) but that's what you get from opinion polls! -- sannse

I don't know if anybody here heard about Jean Yanne : There was an opinion poll about "the greatest French" in his movie "Tout le monde il est beau, tout le monde il est gentil." (in the early 70's) which was mocking radio stations. The results where just as silly. Ericd 21:50 Mar 24, 2003 (UTC)

See: Le Plus Grand Français --Rj

Indeed - Lennon outdoing Nelson? David Beckham outdoing Henry V (and several scores of other luminaries?) I think not! Yet a poll is a poll. Funny how these things work... David Corbett 07:01, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The ones that amuse me are, Oliver Cromwell at 10, classed as greater than Th Duke of Wellington. This would be the same Oliver Cromwell who was responsible for massacring the Irish and many of the subsequent bad blood between the two nations as well as over throwing the monarchy and cutting off the Kings head would it? John Lennon, greater than Nelson? thats just absurd... and the final straw - Guy Fawkes made the list.. who next, Abu Hamza.
  • I QUOTE "Diana is greater than Shakespeare :) Until today I believed the BBC was serious radio. -- Erm, BBC is not "radio" but the UK state broadcaster on TV, radio and the WWW to mention just three media. But anyway, did you read the article? The names were compiled by votes from the public, not BBC producers! And I'm sure that if America voted on the Greatest Briton Diana would have attracted 90% of the votes! PS I have no intention of defending the UK public's vote either. Cromwell - genocidal dictator; Diana - mentally-ill media whore; Fawkes - Catholic terrorist; Lennon - drug-addict who slept in a nice warm bed for peace - what a self-important tool; Beckham and "Robbie" - well, need I say anything? -- 86.17.211.191 10:06, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]


William Harvey did not even make this list? --Rj 23:02, Apr 24, 2005 (UTC)

Newton was a Mathematician!

Newton considered himself a mathematician, and is generally considered one. I'm not sure if some Wikipedia-editor decided he was a physicist, or if it was the BBC. If it was the first, can someone change it? 

 - A physicist is a mathemtician who applies his skills usefully!

Wording

To me "reported" sounds as though this is a fact rather than the results of an opinion poll. I'm not sure "chosen" is the right word either, any other ideas? -- sannse

Unknown

I thought "Unknown Soldier" was the American one and the "Unknown Warrior" was the British one, in Westminster Abbey?

He's in the Cenotaph in Whitehall, actually. Deb 22:42 Mar 24, 2003 (UTC)
Sorry, you're right, apparently there is a grave in Westminster Abbey. It's a bit strange, though. I've only ever heard him referred to as the "Unknown Soldier" in practice. I think the term "warrior" must be used to avoid differentiating between the three armed services. Deb 22:49 Mar 24, 2003 (UTC)
OK, given that the original version had "Warrior", I'll change it back to that, since that's who people "voted" for, apparently.
Fair enough. I just found out the answer. Apparently, there's no question that it was a soldier who was buried in the Abbey, but they put "warrior" on the memorial for the reason I said above. I think most people in the UK actually say "soldier" (and I've no doubt that 9 out of 10 voters wrote "soldier"), but you're right, we should use the proper title. Deb 23:01 Mar 24, 2003 (UTC)

Unexplained format of list

Unless Sir Winston Churchill was also known as Mo Mowlam (which seems unlikely, given their different birth years and sexes, among other things), there is something odd about this list's format. Why do the top ten entries have two apparently-unrelated names?

At second glance, I thought perhaps these double names suggested ties for the position, but this also seems unlikely. All but one of the first names in the top ten is well-known either internationally or historically (most both), and all nine of these are better known than any of the second names. Besides, if there were ties, then this would be a list of the 110 greatest Britons.

Third glance suggested that maybe there were two lists that were combined, the second of which was rather more regional or time-sensitive (which wouldn't explain how Winston Churchill et al. would have fallen off the second list completely). However, that's just conjecture. And there may be a better explanation still.

In any case, there's plenty of opportunity for misinterpretation. The real reason for multiple names at each level should be given in the article. Also, the article makes a statement that begs to be explained, about the "nature" of the poll that produced dubious statistics. Can anyone correct these omissions? — Jeff Q 01:59, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The second name is the person who narrated a documentary about the first name urging the public to vote for "their man". E.g. Mo Mowlam narrated the documentary about Churchill. These ten narrators or advocates also took part in a debate, each playing advocate for their candidate. Pcb21| Pete 11:47, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Well, we should get rid of those second names immediately. They are ridiculously misleading, of no relevance to the original list, and still unexplained in the article. <KF> 11:55, Nov 22, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation for those names. I have pulled them out of the list and created a separate Great Britons series section to provide that information. That way, the series information is still available, but the main list itself contains only the selected Britons. — Jeff Q 14:21, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Great. <KF> 21:54, Nov 22, 2004 (UTC)

Vote for Deletion

This article survived a Vote for Deletion. The discussion can be found here. -Splash 02:12, 3 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Nominated by a Wikipedian who insisted vigorously that a large article about a spaceship-type in the Star Wars movies should not be deleted......go figure. -- 86.17.211.191 10:10, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Name

I'd disagree with the "BBC's" being added to this article's title. It wasn't part of the show's name, there are no other notable '100 Greatest Britons' lists to my knowledge, and 'BBC' is the fourth word in the article, so people aren't exactly going to come across this page and wonder which channel it's from. Also, we have numerous other 100 Greatest lists (100 Greatest Kids' TV shows and 100 Greatest Cartoons from Channel 4, to name two) which don't have the channel name in the title, and have been getting along nicely without it. BillyH 05:24, 25 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, there was some ill-considered renaming in order to work around some even more ill-considered arguments on the vFd for this page. We should rename it back. Obviously the first line of the article will continue to make clear the nature of the list. Pcb21| Pete 12:42, 1 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Unless there are any objections, then, I'll move it back tomorrow. BillyH 22:12, 8 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Nearly Useless List

Robbie Williams and J.K. Rowling? Are these guys drunk? Diana better than Shakespeare? Buahahahahahah.. Robbie Williams. I can't even get over that. But he's better than Monty AND Tolkien. Obviously. Henry II, way down there. Hmmm, he only merely invented the english system of laws and ruled an empire from Scotland all the way to Spain, including 1/2 of France. But I suppose that doens't come close to how good J.K. Rowling's 4th book was. What in the hell are the criteria? Typical British. And I'd know. What's cool now has always been cool, always will be....until next year when something else cooler comes along !!192.197.71.189 14:17, 19 January 2006 (UTC) -C[reply]

I agree with ya, this list is completely useless and obviously extremely subjective to the person who made it. --Summer 19:35, 7 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Of which "person" do you speak? It was the result of a massive public vote - did you even read the article or know on what article you are commenting? -- 86.17.211.191 10:13, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wow! Charles Dickens is way down there on the list and so is Shakespeare. What about Newton? Below Diana!--come on. Were Americans free to vote in this poll? Maybe we caused such ridiculous results; otherwise the British education system needs serious reform. Let's be fair, what about the British colonists (at that time they were still British) that created the American system of democratic government and the free market sytem that helped to evolve from many of those contributions and events.

Not sure, anyone ever heard of Agatha Christie, Lewis, Aldous Huxley, Orwell, Locke, Priestley, j.j. thomson, Francis Bacon, Charlemagne? Sir Arthur Conan Doyle is just as British as Bono. I love that Bono is on there though. Not many painters, philosophers, scientists, or other visionaries. And what of the many (historical) others who didn't make the list. Weak. The British Empire is the greatest empire in history but this list just cannot fathom the extent of contributions of Great Britian (UK) to shaping the current state of civilization.

Changes in two of the names

At the very beginning of the article, I did change Boy George and Robbie Williams to Johnny Rotten and King Richard the Third, mostly because those two names might have a stronger ring of "inappropriateness" with regards to a "Greatest Britons" list.Pat Payne 22:01, 26 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Series?

why isn't it categorized as a series? Kakun 23:55, 20 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Snurk.

I just totally, totally agree that Diana was the third greatest Briton ever. I'm sure glad people were smart enough to see that she should rank ahead of Alfred, Wellington, Isaac Newton, and Shakespeare. Is this article anything but nonsensical cruft? Herostratus 00:29, 4 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree.That Diana got third was an absolute joke compared to those four people who actually had an impact on Britain's future.And why did Cromwell who masscared half of ireland get in the top 10>:(Dermo69

That's okay, the Irish do love their mass-killers too. By the way, he also did some terrible things in England, but that's okay isn't it. Fawkes is in there - Catholic genocidal maniac who tried to kill a King and destroy a state that he was. Any objections? -- 86.17.211.191 10:16, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Johnners

I can't believe that Brian Johnston didn't feature. Probably too many people from the yoof market that the beeb loves than real people. Media people seem to forget that there are millions of Britons over the age of 40.

-Daddyody-

Great Britons ? If Boy George is on your list of 100 greatest anything - except perhaps queens - you better re-examine yourself. You also overlooked Sir George Williams - Founder of the YMCA. So much for lists.

I am shocked that Sir Harry Flashman is not included.

Brigader-General Sir Harry Paget Flashman V.C., K.C.B., K.C.I.E. surely belongs among the greatest military heros and exemplars of moral excellence ever produced by the island realm. 

 : )

Les Dawson

If there are no objections I will remove 'Les Dawson' from the list of notable exclusions. I can't see why he should be listed while scores of other comedians aren't...Although the same could also be said for Thom Yorke - there are plenty of singer/songwriters who didn't make the list. Gringotsgoblin 22:58, 3 March 2007 (UTC)gringotsgoblin[reply]

Adam Smith should be in the top 5

David Beckham number 1????

Shouldn't number 1 be Winston Churchill? I'll change it. AlexOUK 08:37, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The flags beside the nominees

Should the following flags be fixed:

  1. 15 - the Duke of Wellington came from Dublin, Ireland (pre-partition - definately British)
  2. 18 - Queen Victoria - not remotely English! German, yes...
  3. 35 - Boudica - from Norfolk, but surely not English in the modern sense? Celtic, not anglo-saxon.

Trenwith 23:10, 24 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

shouldnt Wellington have the Irish and English flags next to him, he was Anglo-Irish and thought of himself as more English (the famous quote "just because one is born in a stable doesnt make one a horse" BritBoy 19:03, 29 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Sorry it's my fault. I thought the falg were a good idea, and still do, but I just typed in the Egland flag icon for Churchill and copyed and pasted all the way down and chaging where needed, I probably missed a few so change if you think they are wrong. Jimmmmmmmmm 13:57, 30 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

My advice - delete the flags. They are confusing and inaccurate because the list covers so great a period that the boudries, and even existance, of the nations in question have changed beyond recognition. Henry II was certainly born in the modern geographical area of France, bu he would not have considered himself a 'frenchman', and even if we are to think of him as such, the flag should certainly not be the post-1793 tricolour - if anything he was either a Norman or Angevin. Boudicea, while born in geographical England, was of the Iceni Tribe, not an 'englishwoman'. Furthermore, most of the royals have so mixed an ancestry, to list all the nations of their heritage would be impractical. Also, if we are talking from a 'blood perspective', Wellington's ancestry was almost exclusively English.

Seconded. Also not sure why republic of ireland flag is in use. Passingtramp 18:39, 7 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Because some Irish people made the list eg Bono. Jimmmmmmmmm 12:22, 8 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, but for instance Wellington, Shackleton and Victoria have it. If we're going to be accurate those living pre 1922 ought to have the St. Patrick's cross or the Irish harp or something. Extreme pedantry I know! Passingtramp 22:14, 11 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Unless the flags sit alongside some thing like country of birth, they should be deleted. Greenshed 23:31, 17 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Irish

How is ther Irish people in this list does anybody know. Should it not be Britons and Irish or somethingRisteard B 18:54, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Because some people in the UK are a little daft and think the likes of Bono are British, because U2 are popular in Britain. I heard of an American one that voted Jesus top, so you see what I mean. Jimmmmmmmmm 22:54, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

your joking me....... JESUS CHRIST Risteard B 23:36, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Jimmmmmmmmm: What, just like the Irish claim The Edge, Adam Clayton, Muhammed Ali, Bill Clinton and every other President in US history, Eddie Murphy (yes, see the edit war - the clue is in the name) and just about anyone else in the world who has ever achieved something with either a most tenuous link three hundred years ago or Oirish-sounding name (including according to one Wikipedian, "Smith"!!!), red hair, green eyes or penchant for Guinness. Selective memories here on O'Wikipedia. Just look at the list of Irish-Americans and then the list of English-Americans. Senator John Kerry used to call himself Irish-American (name again, nothing to do with actual heritage or residency) until he found out his Eastern-European Jewish antecedants had chosen an Irish name at Ellis Island so they'd fit in (another clue there about the reliability of claims to Irish ancestry): yet still some people on this resource insist that he IS Irish. 195.92.40.49 11:40, 14 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Risteard, he is not joking at all. Unfortunately however he is talking rubbish even if he is serious. His statement is what's called "anecdotal" and is not a view based in any discernable fact. Indeed, it's thought by the programme makers that Irish citizens in the UK were responsible for the three Irish listees. By the way, as our verbose friend above points out, Jim has a serious case of "pot calling kettle black" on this one anyway. (O'Wiki - ain't that the truth!). -- 86.17.211.191 09:58, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Rampant Grafitti

This page will have to be monitored periodically, looks like - idiots like to come and redo the list. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bottre73 (talk • contribs) 18:51, 1 May 2007 (UTC).[reply]

shouldn't #6 be Isaac Newton? it looks like someone has tampered with it... 76.167.213.9 17:25, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, and Maxwell was long dead by then. 195.92.40.49 11:41, 14 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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