Talk:Magnus Hirschfeld

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Soczyczi (talk | contribs) at 12:50, 19 June 2007 (→‎Beginnings of the Scientific Humanitarian Committee). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Jump to navigation Jump to search
WikiProject iconBiography: Actors and Filmmakers Start‑class
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
StartThis article has been rated as Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers.

Template:FAOL

WikiProject iconLGBT studies B‑class
WikiProject iconThis article is of interest to WikiProject LGBT studies, which tries to ensure comprehensive and factual coverage of all LGBTQ-related issues on Wikipedia. For more information, or to get involved, please visit the project page or contribute to the discussion.LGBT studiesWikipedia:WikiProject LGBT studiesTemplate:WikiProject LGBT studiesLGBT articles
BThis article has been rated as B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.

Weber?

I seriously doubt Carl Maria von Weber ever signed that petition, as he was quite dead at the time.

Please sign contributions to talk pages by adding -~~~~ at the end.
So it would seem. Anyone know of some sources where we can dig up info on who died when, signed what, was or perhaps was not alive at what time? -Seth Mahoney 02:54, 22 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Just goes to show you can't trust everything you read on the internet! I have to offer my apologies, it was me who added that list of names. I take it there's only one Carl Maria von Weber? I got the names from this site by Jim Kepner, the Founder of ONE Institute's International Gay and Lesbian Archives. I should have been more cautious, especially when sevel of the names in Kepner's list have spelling errors! Here are two other lists of names on the petition by different authors; I will remove any names that are not on all three lists.
[1] Albert Einstein, Leo Tolstoy, Emile Zola, Kathe Kollwitz, Hermann Hesse, Thomas Mann, Rainer Maria Rilke, August Bebel, Karl Kautsky, Rudolf Hilferding, Gerhardt Hauptman and Eduard Bernstein.
[2] Albert Einstein, Léon Tolstoï, Hermann Hesse, Rainer Maria Rilke, Stefan Zweig, Thomas Mann, Emile Zola, Richard von Krafft-Ebing, Sigmund Freud, et Max Brod.
This leaves: Albert Einstein, Hermann Hesse, Thomas Mann, Rainer Maria Rilke. I think we can also add Leo Tolstoy, as Kepner mentions him as a signatory elsewhere in his article and it is corroborated by the other two. -ntennis 08:20, 22 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Of course, it wasn't the composer Carl Maria VON Weber who signed the petition, but the activist and expressionist author Carl Maria Weber (1890-1953). Soczyczi 14:42, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't signed since I don't have an account on the English-language Wikipedia, and only contribute very occasionally. I'm a regular contributor on the Hebrew Wikipedia, where my username is Aviad2001. I noticed the error since I'm currently translating this article (and the one in the German Wikipedia) into Hebrew. 88.111.162.200 21:46, 22 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

BTW, Richard Plant, in The Pink Triangle mentions Buber and Bebel as signatories as well. 88.111.162.200 21:53, 22 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The petition and the problems in assessing who signed it have been treated in an article in the German gay history magazine Capri. Zeitschrift für schwule Geschichte (Nr. 37, May 2005). In 30 years, about 6000 people appear to have signed the petition. Not all of the names have been published, only a selection. Signatures have been published in some 8 lists a.o. in gay magazines, like the Jahrbuch für sexuelle Zwischenstufen and Die Freundschaft. These lists, comprising 2486 names, have been reprinted in this issue of Capri.

Of the abovementioned names, Tolstoy, Zola and Freud are not in the lists. However, the petition has been signed by Carl Maria Weber (not the composer (1783-1826), but the expressionist poet (1890-1953) - himself a homosexual, see Carl Maria Weber in the German Wikipedia), Albert Einstein, Käthe Kollwitz, Thomas (and Heinrich) Mann, Rainer Maria Rilke, August Bebel, Max Brod, Karl Kautsky, Rudolf Hilferding (??? why he?) Stefan Zweig, Gerhart Hauptmann, Martin Buber, Richard von Krafft-Ebing and Eduard Bernstein. Soczyczi 00:00, 3 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I changed the text according to this, but left out Hilferding and Weber, because they are not very well known like the others. I also left out the remark about the signatories not coming out for their homosexuality, because as far as we know none of these was homosexual. They did sign the petition because they were against the injustice, not because of their own identity. Soczyczi 22:08, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hirschfeld a transvestite?

I wonder where to find proof of Hirschfeld being himself a transvestite. Any pictures? Soczyczi 14:47, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

About a week ago, I asked the first author of this Hirschfeld article, Danny, on his talk page about the source of Hirschfeld's transvestism and also about the source for Hirschfeld being openly gay and participating in the gay subculture. I didn't find any material about this in the various English and German biographies of Hirschfeld. There are several known instances of Hirschfeld showing gay bars and transvestite festivities to distinguished guests (for instance Arnold Aletrino in 1903), but that's not ‘’participating’’. That Hirschfeld was called 'Auntie Magnesia' or 'Magnolia' has been documented, but certainly not that it was his name as a transvestite!

The very moment his colleagues or his many readers would know Hirschfeld was openly gay or even a transvestite, no one would take him seriously anymore.

I asked one of Hirschfeld's biographers, Manfred Herzer, to comment on his participation in the German gay subculture, and on his supposed transvestism. Herzer thought both assumptions nonsense. There's some comment by Herzer on Hirschfeld's sexuality in the newest issue of the German gay history magazine Capri. Zeitschrift für schwule Geschichte (Nr. 39, December 2006). According to this, Hirschfeld was homosexual, but certainly never openly gay. I am going to delete these lines in the article in one or two days, unless any of you come up with some substantiation. Soczyczi 17:57, 2 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Lili Elbe

Hirschfield performed the first Sex Reassignment Surgery in the world on Lili Elbe, but it is not mentioned here ??? Fluffball70 07:56, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hirschfeld did not perform the first sex reassignment surgery. Hirschfeld was a medical doctor, but not a surgeon. He tested Elbe by psychologically questioning her thoroughly before the operation, but the operation was carried out by others. Soczyczi 02:06, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Grantham Oral History of Anal Sex?

Does such a book actually exist? I was unable to find any information on it anywhere.

Hello Anonymous, quite right, the book doesn't exist as far as I could fathom. The title was added last November by 24.60.163.16, who calls himself Tonganoxie Jim and has a bit of a reputation of vandalism. I'm going to remove the reference. Soczyczi 10:49, 2 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

German-Jewish in lead

I changed this per wp:mosbio. How is his being Jewish relevant to the subject's notability? Please put that material under family backround, ect.Thanks, --Tom 20:22, 17 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please do not delete material from articles; if you don't like it where it is, move it. Thanks.--Runcorn 14:38, 20 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Runcorn, sorry for my tirst edit summary, I miss read you. Where should I move that material to? I see to many bios where ethnicity in my opinion is "forced" into the bio and looks out of place. Anyways, --Tom 14:48, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That's up to you - start a new section if necessary.--Runcorn 19:26, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, is that better? --Tom 20:14, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Tom, I am most grateful to you for your courtesy.--Runcorn 21:54, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Runcorn, no problem. Again, if you see ANY edit I make that you question, just let me now on the article's talk page on my talk and will work it out. Cheers! --Tom 15:18, 22 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I incorporated that tiny paragraph 'Ethnicity' into an expanded introduction. I think it's better now. Soczyczi 18:53, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Beginnings of the Scientific Humanitarian Committee

It really is a mistake to think that Adolf Brand and Friedlaender were among the founders of the WhK (SHC). Brand had his own magazine, Der Eigene (1896-1932), and later his own movement, Die Gemeinschaft der Eigenen. Brand not always opposed Hirschfeld, but he certainly never was much attached to the SHC. Friedlaender (1866-1908) donated a lot of money to the WHC before he started his own short-lived movement in 1906, but he was not one of the founders. The birth of the SHC has been told by Hirschfeld in a graphic way (in his autobiographical series Von einst bis jetzt): each of the four founders, Hirschfeld, Oberg, Spohr and Bülow put some gold coins on a table, Bülow twice as much as the others (he was a nobleman and presumably rich). That was the founding of the SHC, on May 15, 1897. Soczyczi 21:57, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Magnus_Hirschfeld&oldid=139190582"