Talk:Canada goose

Redirects

Canadian goose Canadian geese Canada geese

Capitalization

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At least in American spelling, the "goose" is not capitalized -- see the Columbia Encyclopedia Article about geese, goose. The Columbia Encyclopedia, 6th Edition, which does not capitalize the second word. I think the Columbia Encyclopedia is as reliable a source as any, and I have not seen any encyclopedia but Wikipedia that capitalizes both. Bobburito 06:11, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

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Its spelt both ways:Canada Goose (if its a title of a book or section ie chapter, encyclopidia topic, and canada goose, but Canada goose could mean any kind of goose that origenated from canada, and canada Goose is improper spelling, relly all this stuff is confusion with the diferent forms.

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• Please, we've been through the capitalization discussion. This is the convention we reached after much discussion. Both terms are capitalized. Danny
  • Where is this discussion? Is this only for titles? All dictionaries I've reviewed (including Canadian Oxford) do not capitalize the "goose". Jade Squirrel
    • No, it is for all appearances. I did not take part in the discussion, but it is in one of the naming convention articles. Danny

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I just reviewed the Wikipedia naming conventions. It states:

"Unless the term you wish to create a page for is a proper noun, do not capitalize second and subsequent words." (my emphaisis) http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(capitalization) Jade Squirrel

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An exception was made in the case of animals. You might want to check the Australian animals, becauzse that is where the discussion took place. It was not too long ago. Please don't start it off again. Danny

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I didn't find any relevant discussion on this. If that decision was made, the naming conventions have not been updated. I noticed most of the Australian animals follow the convention you stated, but there are a few other animals where only the first word is capitalized. Since the Wikipedia is inconsistent, I'm not going to bother with this issue. Jade Squirrel

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Tannin has informed me:

"You'll find several discussions of the naming conventions for animals around the place, but (for complicated reasons I won't go into) there isn't a naming conventions page that sets them out yet. Sorry abut that. The heat has gone out of the debate now, and the compromise that was hammered out is working well, so I'll see if I can attend to that over the next few days. But in the meantime, you will find the essentials at Wikipedia:WikiProject Birds. That's bird-specific, but the same rules apply to mammals." Jade Squirrel

I noticed that bird books by National Geographic capitalize the names. --Evice 02:59, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

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These geese also occur in the City park of [[de:F%FCrth|Fuerth]] (Germany); this year the population grew remarkably - the last days I observed 50 or more. There are also some with white or red-orange heads. A picture is here; I can add some more, if wanted: http://de.wikipedia.org/upload/1/15/Wildgans-schwarzer-kopf-fuerth.jpg

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Thats because(The geese are in gemany) the geese were raised in captivity and then they flu allong side a plane to europe

Gallery

At what point will this article contain enough images of this bird? I think three or four images for the article would suffice and that no gallery is warrented. Rklawton 15:09, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, better yet, there are enough photos within the actual article itself. Anyone who still wants to put their photos up should upload them to Wikimedia Commons. There can simply be a link to it from the article itself. there is no canada goose page yet so someone should create it. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=Canada+goose&go=Go

Canada v. Canadian

It is regrettable for the integrity of Wikipedia than a single person, apparently Jim F. Bleak, can exercise unilateral control over content, completely suppressing the well documented fact that not everyone calls the Canadian goose a Canada Goose. Removing a simple sentence to this effect constitutes an act of vandalism. Complaining about the removal is not vandalism but democracy. It is true that many people consider the insistence on Canada Goose an ungrammatical affectation of self-proclaimed elites. The independently minded should read the complete discussion. Several challenges were set including finding dictionary references and doing a Google search. Two American dictionarys list Canadian goose as an alternative. The listings contain no perjorative remarks. The Google search gave overwhelming support for fact than many people prefer Canadian goose to Canada goose. Note that the search was for documents that contained the term "Canadian goose" and did not contain the term "Canada goose." Mr. Bleak's sole argument that has not been refuted is the he has never heard the term Canadian goose used in Europe. I note that Europe is not included in the normal range for this bird.

How can a reasonable discussion occur when someone chooses to delete even the discussion in addion to deleting well supported additions to the main entry? This behavior is sophomoric. Who are you?

Canadian Goose is an accepted variant in at least two American dictionaries: Webster's Third New International Dictionary and The American Heritage Dictionary. A Google search for the words “Canadian Goose” but without the words “Canada Goose” yielded 129,000 entries! There seems adequate support for recognizing that Canadian Goose is an alternative to Canada Goose that is preferred by many because the name then follows normal rules of grammar.

It appears an editor wishes to take issue with the name of this bird, changing it to "Canadian Goose" without supporting sources, and inspite of existing references to the contrary. Those wishing to discuss or debate the matter should do so here. As per policy, facts should be supported by sources, and this article has no sources as of yet supporting the name "Canadian Goose." Rklawton 04:10, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

nothing to debate, all sources use Canada. Bird names don't necessarily conform to the rules of grammar - thus Lesser Spotted Woodpecker, but Great (not Greater) Spotted Woodpecker. jimfbleak 06:06, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Of course there is something to debate. Dictionaries, e.g. the American Heritage Dictionary, do not recognize Canada as an adjective. The idea that birder should somehow be exempt from standard English grammar obviously applies to the binomial name for the animal. However, at issue here is the common name. At the very least, a few sentences should be allowed to present the issue and to represent an American opinion that words like America and Canada are nouns, not adjectives. It is worth noting that the article subsequently refers to a Canadian $100 dollar note (At least it is not a Canada note. However, North Americans would call it a bill, not a note).— Preceding unsigned comment added by Ebnauman (talk • contribs)

That's a good idea but only if you can find a decent source that supports your position. I just checked with the all-American "Webster" dictionary, and it recognizes only "Canada Goose". If you don't have a few good sources supporting "Canadian Goose" then you're not going to get very far here. Them's the rules. Rklawton 00:40, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

The (1985) American Heritage Dictionary itself also only has "Canada goose." But I'm conflicted. In conversation I've never used or heard anything other than "Canadian." Eleuther 20:09, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

As for the Lesser and Great Spotted Wood Peckers, both lesser and great are perfectly acceptable adjective and both names conform to the rules of English grammar.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Ebnauman (talk • contribs)

The main English speaking bird organisations in N America and Europe all use Canada, so do all my American and European field guides, so does Wildfowl, the standard text - this is just a nuisance tactic by Ebnauman jimfbleak 18:42, 26 September 2006 (UTC).

PS should it be World Series - World is a noun?

IMHO Wikipedia should be descriptive rather than prescriptive, if only for the reason that Wikipedia strives to have a neutral point of view. "Canadian goose" and "Canadian geese" seem to be attested in use, so they can be justified to stay. --Kjoonlee 05:06, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Arguing that "Canadian Goose" should be advocated looks like linguistic prescription to me. That would be NPOV POV. --Kjoonlee 05:30, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

At the risk of prolonging this, where is it attested, apart from the editors above? I've added and in anycase pointed it to NAm usage if true - certainly never heard Canadian Goose used in Europe. jimfbleak 06:10, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Later -try typing Canadian Goose into Google. Unless a citation can be given, the Canadian will have to go - you can't just give in to persistent wrong info. jimfbleak 06:19, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

/me shrugs. Perhaps it isn't widely attested, but I always called them Canadian Geese when I used to live in London. I haven't done extensive research (and I shouldn't) but a quick google search for "Canadian goose" and "Canadian geese" yields non-zero results. Maybe it also includes mentions of "Canadian 'goose species'" as well, but nevertheless, I think people other than myself and Ebnauman would call it Canadian Goose as well. --Kjoonlee 06:22, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

"Wrong" is a prescriptive POV. --Kjoonlee 06:23, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't necessarily accept that "wrong" is POV (eg 2+2=5 is wrong) although I see that it can be. I would be happier if there was a citation for this as requested at the start of this section - the fact that none has been found in nearly two months suggests that the usage is very unusual and of dubious validity. If I started calling it American Goose, would that merit mention in the article? jimfbleak 10:13, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Mathematics doesn't change but language does. If more and more people start saying "egg corn" to mean acorn, then yes, that does merit a mention somewhere. Minuscule mentions "miniscule," for example. --Kjoonlee 10:24, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

You might argue that "Canadian Goose" is not widely attested, in which case I rest my case, and will not object if it were to be removed for that reason. But if you say it's not attested at all, or that it's incorrect, I'll probably complain to myself. --Kjoonlee 10:31, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

In the absence of any proper sourcing that this is a widely used variant,and in the face of a lot of evidence that it isn't (eg not in the US dictionaries or bird books) I intend to remove the statement. Note also that this construction is not uncommon - Canada Warbler, California Quail, (and California Thrasher and California Least Tern) Tennessee Warbler, Dartford Warbler, Sandwich Tern, Kentucky Derby, World Series. jimfbleak 05:45, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

The proper slang is "Canada", but I think it is more of a regional thing. I think fewer people say "Canadian goose". *Daijinryuu*

It is amazing how a supposedly open encyclopedia has fallen victim to a cult of pedantic birders. The widespread use of "Canadian goose" rather than the ungrammatical "Canada Goose" deserves at least one sentence in the article. I accept that birders prefer Canada Goose, apparently because is shows their erudition. However, Wikipedia is not a bird manual. I have added a perfectly true and well supported sentence: "The bird is commonly called a Canadian goose in North America." Adding this sentence is not an act of vandalism. Removing it again would be. 74.70.146.173 02:07, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

No. Please reread Wikipedia:Vandalism for what is/isn't vandalism. --Kjoonlee 02:27, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

See also descriptive linguistics; you seem to be prescribing a less-described term. --Kjoonlee 03:52, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Ah hah ... this must be a "talk" page!

I agree that Mr. Bleak is out of touch with reality if he insists on Canadian geese being "wrong".

Geese Integration

One of the photographs in the article has a Snow Goose hanging out with the Canadas. Is it common for different species of geese to interact and flock together? Cranston Lamont 23:31, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Geese are very gregarious, and isolated individuals/escapes etc will join any available goose flock. Our local Canada flock currently contains an escaped Bar-headed Goose. jimfbleak 05:37, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

A Pest

• Maybe we should include a section on how it is a pest and how in certain areas, like in Jersey, people view the creature as pest because of the constant noise they create and all the feces they leave behind? *Daijinryuu*
• I would like to see expanded discussions on the presence of Resident Geese -- How they started, etc. Appropriate control methods should also be included here, as well as population shifts when large numbers of geese are exterminated as a control method.

Oh. I had just removed the following from the article:

Some migratory populations in temperate climates frequent cities as well, due to convenient, predator-free open spaces. These birds are considered by many to be a nuisance , mainly because of the large volume of feces they produce, and like other water fowl, they also frequently walk with their young across roads, creating traffic tie-ups. Some cities have begun extermination programs against them . Other solutions have included relocation and the use of a substance to coat the eggs to prevent maturation and hatching. Many geese are also killed in collisions with automobiles and, occasionally, aircraft.

Is there any information on how it's considered to be a nuisance? We shouldn't be adding info we can't verify, and I don't think it's been verified properly. --Kjoonlee 16:52, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I found this NZ government report:

www.mwpress.co.nz/store/downloads/LRSS_30_Spurr4Web.pdf

The authors note that geese are considered a pest because they compete with livestock for grazing, and this is referenced.

Other reasons for their pestilent nature are described (defecation etc) but those points are unreferenced.Garethvaughan 21:42, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

NZ Canadas aren't migratory - see text above. jimfbleak 06:19, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

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The Pennsylvania Department of Conservation and Natural Resources (DCNR) in 2005 declared them to be a nuisance in localized areas Source

"Non-migratory Canada goose populations have increased drastically in recent years, causing crop damage and nuisance problems in residential neighborhoods. Park visitors often complain about goose excrement on state park beaches and other facilities, and water quality at some state parks has been adversely impacted."

--Nathan Gerber 16:41, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

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Map

The map of the distribution of Canadian Geese does not include Eastern Canada. I edited it to include it. Map of Canadian Geese distribution in North America

CuffX 02:40, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Nor does it include, for example, the Netherlands and Japan, which are mentioned in the text: Canada Geese have reached western Europe naturally, as has been proved by ringing recoveries. The birds are of at least the subspecies parvipes, and possibly others. Canada Geese are also found naturally on the Kamchatka Peninsula in eastern Siberia, eastern China, and throughout Japan.

Greater Canada Geese have also been widely introduced in Europe, and have established feral populations in Great Britain, the Netherlands, and Scandinavia.

Since the map is supposed to include feral populations, it might be time to either change the text or the map depending on which one is right. 87.78.134.22 21:17, 12 March 2007 (UTC)