Talk:Languages of the United States

Creole

I can see on the primary language bar that Portuguese and Portuguese Creole are counted as the same language, but French and French Creole are not. Why is that? kcar1986 00:34, Jul 23, 2004 (UTC)

I don't know the deal about Portugese/Portugese Creole, but the "French Creole" listed is Haitian Creole, which is really a separate language in its own right.

recent-immigrant lang

We could use something on recent-immigrant languages, especially current usages (much Korean, Cantonese, and Russian, for example, in NY); I should probably add a bit about Yiddish, among other things. Amish and Native American languages, probably belong in separate articles. Vicki Rosenzweig

About the official language in the USA

I don't quite understand that the English is not an official language in the USA. What this really means? I do believe that almost all official documents and such are written in English. Can someone explain this a little bit more? I can't imagine if I'll do much with swahili or with some more exotic language in public. And I get almost a petty nausea when I saw for example John Wayne speaking German in almost all German and Austrian TV's. And after all you can speak swahili in my homeland too, if you want. And it is quite a fun. Many African students are still studying in Ljubljana and they learn some Slovene. The most famous of them is Ignacio Bintchende aka Janez Belina (English John Whiteness). He also had some (let us say) neo-nazi incidents. After all do I live in a free country far away from mother Africa, where a word nigger can be heard many times - even in public politics? :-) Best regard. -- XJamRastafire 18:03 Jul 29, 2002 (PDT)

It simply means that the United States does not have an officially decreed language that must be used. English is certainly the most common, but millions of Americans live their lives speaking other languages.

In general, you are supposed to speak English to be naturalized as a citizen, but even that isn't a rigid standard. Here is a summary of the requirements:

A person must also demonstrate an ability to speak, read, and write ordinary English and have a general understanding of U.S. government and history. Long-time older permanent residents are exempt from the English requirement if they are 50 years or older and have been living in the U.S. for at least 20 years, or if they are 55 years or older and have been living in the U.S. for at least 15 years. These immigrants must still demonstrate knowledge of U.S. history and government, but they may do so in their native language.

Native-born Americans are not required to speak English in most places, although it is certainly handy!

Some US states have an official languages. In New Mexico both English and Spanish are official languages, although New Mexicans say the state does not always live up to its ideals in this regard. Ortolan88

Yes Ortolan88 now I got a picture. The most important thing is, as I understand, that a language is not decreed. Nice law. I know how hard it is for two different nations (or even more ones) to live together. I can here for example recall Austrian politician Jörg Haider, who will do anything even nowadays that two peaceful nations won't live together in a small region. I can imagine similar problems all over the world. So in this case States can be beautifull example of living together. Thank you very much for the explanation. -- XJamRastafire 18:45 Jul 29, 2002 (PDT)

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• Does Congress have a procedural rule on the language which must be spoken in debates? If not then how is the official record kept?
• Do the federal courts have a law on one language for the officials of the court. If not how is justice seen to be done? Philip Baird Shearer 21:19, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Benjamin Franklin

Benjamin Franklin advocated German? This is the same Benjamin Franklin who complained about the Pennsylvania Germans because they were germanizing their neighbours instead of anglicising themeselves? -stoltz. (although it could be true...Franklin may have suggested the use of German, I don't know?)

"Benjamin Franklin advocated the use of German as the official language of the United States, marking a break from the language spoken by Great Britain, against which the newly-formed United States had recently rebelled."

I moved this to talk because it is inaccurate. Here [1] is a Straight Dope column to this effect. It wasn't Ben Franklin, and they weren't going to make it the only official language - they were just going to translate govdocs into German.Montréalais

language spoken in immigrant communities

I removed the section on language spoken in immigrant communities but are not considered indigineous because that clause doesn't make any sense. Chinese isn't any less indigenous to North America than English.

linguistic homogeneity

I removed this sentence: " Any other large nation in history had this linguistic homogeneity," because it just doesn't ring true. Think of China, the history of the North and South American continents, pre-'Discovery' Australia, the Soviet Union, the Roman Empire, the English empire, and on and on. Atorpen 04:15 Mar 8, 2003 (UTC)

Indeed. Would it even be going too far to say, "No other large nation in history has had this level of linguistic homogeneity"? -- Oliver P. 04:20 Mar 8, 2003 (UTC)

China? From Chinese language: 'The notion of a "Chinese Language" may seem at first to be a fiction. The term "Chinese" is employed for the classical written language known as "wen2 yan2 (?? "literary language")" which was used by Confucius, as well as the modern standard known as "bai2 hua4 (?? "vernacular")". It includes many different spoken variations which may be mutually unintelligible. The spoken language of Beijing is for example very different from Cantonese, the conversational language of Hong Kong'.

North and South American are continents, nor countries. Also, some small countries in Latin America as Bolivia have three official languages (and so much not officials).

In the same, the Soviet Union, the Roman Empire and the English empire were all empires, no countries. All of them were multietnic and multilingual.

The pre-'Discovery' Australia? From Australia: some of the surviving Aboriginal communities maintain their native languageS

Well, in [Australian Aborigine]], somebody wrote It should be noted that there were many different Aboriginal groups, with their own languages, cultures and beliefs which overlapped to a greater or lesser extent, and evolved over time.

And Brasil?

The English empire *was* North America. it only became multiethnic later when it became the British Empire. -- Derek Ross ??

Many different ethnic groups were present in N. America before the British crossed the Pacific. Please dont forget about them :) Cheers! - Ish ishwar 22:50, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)

ASL

Why isn't American Sign Language listed in the commonly used languages at home list? From what I've read, it's the third or fourth most spoken language in the United States, so I would guess they speak it at home too.  ;-) --Chuck SMITH

Grimes (2000) reports that ASL is signed by 100,000-500,000 Americans (out of a 2 million population of deaf persons), and Hawai'i Pidgin Sign Language by about 6,000 (almost extinct). Martha's Vineyard Sign Language is extinct (formerly signed in Massachusetts).

British ancestors

I removed the statement that 80% of Americans have no British ancestors. In the last census, 33% reported British background and since most respondents only listed one ethnicity, a primary one, than a far higher number have some British ancestors. Possibly even 80%? ;) Rmhermen 14:15, Feb 6, 2004 (UTC)

Parliament myth

I removed this bit:

In the late 19th century a voting took place in the Parliament, regarding the selection of the country's official language. English was the winning language, with Greek language having received just one vote less.

since it appears to me to be apocryphal - the popular urban legend.

I heard it about German, rather than Greek, losing by one vote. This has at least a little more basis in fact, but the situation as stated is incorrect according to Snopes ([2], [3]).

If somebody can substantiate this "fact" (for starters, give an exact year), feel free to put it back. Until then, out with this junk. -- pne 10:16, 18 May 2004 (UTC)

Hello Parliament we do not have one in the US.

This story is pure nonsense. There has never been a vote on the matter in Congress, and the idea that a language other than English would even be in the running is laughable.

NPOV?

Some African-American activists insist that Ebonics, also known as African-American Vernacular English, the dialect of English spoken in many African-American sections of American urban areas, is not simply a dialect, but an entirely different language, and are urging that their language be accepted as an equal to American English.

I want to see some actual evidence for this -- which African-American advocates, for example, and when? I know linguists have been arguing that it's a valid dialect, and not just "bad English" forever, but -- well, what does it even mean, "accepted as an equal to American English." And if it is a dialect, then it already is American English by definition -- it's just not Standard American English. I'm not sure the above isn't just a kneejerk to some media claptrap.--Peccavimus 08:00, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

my commentary

Hi. I have a few comments that I hope everyone will consider.

I find this article to rather ethnocentric regarding its marginalization of the languages indigeneous to N. America. These languages are only mentioned very briefly at the end of the list of languages. This is unfortunate, especially considering the past and continued marginalization of these speakers.

These languages, I feel, should be discussed first in the article, if only as a kind gesture. These languages have been spoken in the territory of the US longer than any European language has been spoken in Europe, expecting Basque. The linguistic diversity in just California alone is far, far greater than the diversity in Europe. This is something to marvel at. The US language situation is unique because of their existence.

There is a sad history involved as well, which may make authors reluctant write about: the systematic efforts to eradicate these languages.

I guess the current organization & content of this page has been influenced by the more economically powerful language speakers.

I was just thinking that an article titled "Languages in the United States" would be more about the languages in the United States both time immemorial and newly-arrived. Peace - Ish ishwar 07:59, 2005 Feb 10 (UTC)

Massive pruning

Sorry - I don't accept the huge deletions. I make a motion that we revert the page. Any seconds?Cbdorsett 20:18, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• I'm confused. To which deletions are you referring? The last edit appears to only rearrange the page, which I think is fine. (A history link would be great if you mean something else.) Josh 02:36, Mar 10, 2005 (UTC)

English only

I added the word "only" to the box on the upper-right corner because that is what the 82.105% statistic from the census actually refers to. In other words, 82% of Americans *only speak English* at home. That is different from the percentage of people who speak English at home. (THAT percentage is a good 10-15% higher.)