Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2008 December 18

December 18

Category:Brazilian Brazilian-Jiu-Jitsu practitioners

Propose renaming Category:Brazilian Brazilian-Jiu-Jitsu practitioners to Category:Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu practitioners from Brazil

Nominator's rationale: Rename. Brazilian Brazilian-Jiu-Jitsu looks like a pretty horrible title for a category. User5802 (talk) 22:24, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Category:Chinese Jeet Kune Do practitioners

Category:Chinese Jeet Kune Do practitioners - Template:Lc1

Nominator's rationale: Delete No need for for this category, the Jeet Kune Do practioners category is sufficient. User5802 (talk) 19:36, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Category:Jeet Kune Do practitioners by nationality

Category:Jeet Kune Do practitioners by nationality - Template:Lc1

Nominator's rationale: Delete Only the Jeet Kune Do Practitioners category is necessary. User5802 (talk) 19:33, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Category:Martial arts practitioners by type by nationality

Category:Martial arts practitioners by type by nationality - Template:Lc1

Nominator's rationale: Delete This category makes no sense and is redundant. See:

Martial arts practitioners by type

Martial arts practitioners by nationality

Martial arts practitioners by type by nationality ! ! !

What is Martial arts practitioners by type by nationality?!?! User5802 (talk) 19:15, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Category:English footballers who have played in Scotland

Category:English footballers who have played in Scotland - Template:Lc1

Nominator's rationale: Delete Same reason as on Cat:Scottish footballers who have played in England:, Per discussion. Govvy (talk) 17:51, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

• Keep. Just as informative as any English expat footballer cat page. Mayumashu (talk) 17:57, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
• Delete because they aren't expats if playing in Scotland, because its part of the same country. пﮟოьεԻ 57 18:09, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

  They are English footballers playing outside England, which according to many definitions (including that of the football authorities) makes them ex-pats in another country (meaning is clear from sentence anyway). Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 20:19, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

  Except that "English" isn't defined unless a player has had an international call-up (various footballers born in England self-identify as Scottish; some players who self-identify as English have Scotland international caps), and even "Scotland" is dubiously-defined in some cases (English players at Gretna F.C. prior to 2003, for instance; the club was physically located north of the border but played in the English football pyramid). Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 21:27, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

• Delete. The various definitions of nationality make ex-pat categories a pain no matter what, but in the specific case of Scotland and England the situation is impossibly complex and this category can neither be comprehensive nor indeed even entirely accurate. We shouldn't be constructing false taxonomies through the use of contrived categories. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 18:24, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
• Delete I don't see the need for any of the footballer ex-pat categories, or even think they are entirely correct; but this one is particularly unnecessary, per nom. Peanut4 (talk) 20:10, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
• Keep, category is clearly informative, as was the one already deleted. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 20:19, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
• Delete – Chris Cunningham makes the case very well. Occuli (talk) 20:23, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
• Delete - completely irrelevant. So what if they made a few appearances North of the Border? - fchd (talk) 20:30, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Category:Dungeons & Dragons articles that need to differentiate between fact and fiction

Propose renaming Category:Dungeons & Dragons articles that need to differentiate between fact and fiction to Category:D&D articles that need to differentiate between fact and fiction

Nominator's rationale: Rename. Using "D&D" would be more in line with other Dungeons & Dragons-related category names which are used for project maintenance rather than reader use. I'm hoping to create more categories similar to this one soon, and a single naming convention would be good. -Drilnoth (talk) 15:05, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose. The switch should be the other way around, if any. I'd like to see this fully discussed at WT:DND first before renames are proposed. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 18:27, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Comment. The reason that I say it should be changed to D&D is that there are a lot of already-established categories that use the abbreviation, and which would have to be changed, too, probably being more work. Additionally, all of the Wikipedia Version 1.0 Editorial Work relating to Dungeons & Dragons uses "D&D," such as in Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/D&D articles by quality statistics. In my opinion everything should either use "D&D" or "Dungeons & Dragons," not having both. Anyway, if you want to close this discussion and go to WT:D&D before starting an official proposal, we can do that. -Drilnoth (talk) 18:39, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree that they should be uniform, but I have no preference as to which way that goes. If, for example, we have a dozen that go "D&D" and only one that spells out the full name, it would be easier to cut that one down than to bring the rest out. I don't know what the actual ratio is, though. BOZ (talk) 20:11, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

The total is at least 26 that already use "D&D" and would have to be renamed, as well as numerous non-category pages, such as the Wikipedia v1.0 editorial team pages related to D&D. -Drilnoth (talk) 20:16, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Category:Minor league baseball players by team in Oregon

Category:Minor league baseball players by team in Oregon - Template:Lc1

Nominator's rationale: Delete Triple intersection: occupation, employer, location. Teams are already sorted by state, and afaict, this is the only player-by-team-in-XYZ cat. Neier (talk) 13:59, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Category:Villages in Kollam District

Suggest merging Category:Villages in Kollam District to Category:Villages in Kollam district

Nominator's rationale: Merge to Category:Villages in Kollam district per conventions . Creator asking for merging to another category -- Tinu Cherian - 09:24, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Support To make them consistent The Bald One ^{White cat} 16:48, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Category:Canoers

Propose renaming Category:Canoers to Category:Canoeists

Nominator's rationale: Rename. Yes, I know that this change would need to be reflected in all the subcategories - consider this something of a test case, and the outcome of this discussion will determine the next step to be taken, if any. Details are listed at Wikipedia talk:Categories for discussion#Canoers and canoeists, but - basically - the term canoeists is far more widely used than canoer (the ratio of ghits is about 7 to 1), and the term "canoer" is virtually unknown in quite a number of countries. If goole is anything to go by, both terms are used to a large extent (possibly about equally) in the US and Canada, and the term "canoer" is virtually never met in countries that use UK English (a google search of New Zealand sites, for example, gives 2250 hits for canoeist and a paltry ten hits for canoer - three of which are typos for cancer!) The key article of canoe uses the word canoeist throughout (never mentioning the term canoer), and the article on canoeing uses canoeist as its primary word for someone who uses a canoe (with canoer listed after it as an alternative). A third key article for the category is the fairly unequivocably-titled List of flatwater canoeists by country. If the two terms are, as it seems, interchangeable in US English, but only one is used in UK English, surely it makes more sense to go with the one used in both. If it is a genuine difference between UK and US English and US usage is predominantly for canoer, then the term canoeist should still be used for those subcategories for countries which primarily use UK English and also (as is usual practice on WP, IIRC) for European countries. Grutness...wha? 04:29, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

• Rename per nom - sounds sensible. Johnbod (talk) 05:29, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
• Rename per nom - a convincing argument. Occuli (talk) 10:42, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
• Rename per nom and then nominate subcategories; another very convincing and well-researched case made by Grutness. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 11:55, 18 December 2008 (UTC)