Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:TimAlderson/2019

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Lulzwut (talk | contribs) at 19:52, 18 April 2008 (→‎User:TimAlderson/2019). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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User:TimAlderson/2019

While it is true that we give Wikipedians a fair amount of leeway in userspace...

Writing a novel? Surely there are more appropriate websites for that.

In addition, the 2019 page is (was) categorised inappropriately. I removed the categories for obvious reasons. - jc37 04:28, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete as nominator. - jc37 04:28, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete as per nom. X Marx The Spot (talk) 11:24, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per my reasoning in the essay Wikipedia:Editors matter. In principle, I would ordinarily agree that writing a novel is an inappropriate use of userspace, and if this user had made no other contributions, I would conclude that he was abusing Wikipedia as a free webhost. However, the user has made a number of good-faith contributions to the main namespace, and has uploaded an image (which I'm not sure is correctly licensed, but at least he's tried). Considering that we don't need to worry about server space (and deleted material stays in the archives anyway), and that deleting this page might well drive the user away (and that editors are our most important resource), I think the potential harm from this deletion would outweigh any benefit to the encyclopedia. Simply put: it's more important to recruit and retain editors than it is to conserve server space, so we should be very generous with what we allow in userspace. (As I explained in WP:EM, this is why I almost always argue for the keeping of useless pages in userspace and projectspace. It's a simple cost-benefit equation.) WaltonOne 12:44, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • "if this user had made no other contributions" - Well, "few" other contributions. That said, I don't think deleting the user's novel from Wikipedia should cause them from editing the encyclopedia any less than they are already. A novel? You're kidding, right? (And I wonder if the user understands the GDFL repercussions of this choice. I'm sure that I don't...) - jc37 02:21, 16 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Few other contributions are better than none. And regardless of what "should" happen, it is perfectly possible that deleting the novel will cause the user to stop editing. Aggressive MfD'ing of userpages has caused users to leave in the past. WaltonOne 09:20, 16 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • I am starting to feel that Editors matter is being used as a trump card to keep pages from users who have not made a substantial contribution to the encyclopedia. If someone makes a few edits they have 'contributed' and we must keep all of their pages. Why? ><RichardΩ612 07:28, 16 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • EM is not a trump card, it's an essay. It has no binding force in itself; the reason I created it is because it summarises my reasoning on this issue, and saves me from having to repeat the same arguments in hundreds of MfDs. The strength is in the reasoning (which no one has ever adequately rebutted), not in the citing of an acronym. As to your other question: if someone makes a few constructive edits, then they may be interested in contributing more extensively; and since contributors are our most important resource (whereas server space doesn't matter at all), we need to do everything we can to recruit and retain contributors. It is a fact that deleting someone's userpages often causes them to leave Wikipedia - therefore wasting our most valuable resource, i.e. willing volunteers. We don't pay people to write for us, so we need to go out of our way to recruit and retain contributors. WaltonOne 09:19, 16 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • No offence intended, but can you provide any evidence that deleting user subpages causes editors to leave? ><RichardΩ612 10:00, 16 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
          • Yes. Example: see User:Aliasd's comments here. I really really really do not mean this as a threat, but if this page in my userspace is deleted, that would clinch it for me as far as working on this project is concerned. I am a volunteer and I feel that for the most part, how I interact with other volunteers is my business. Also note [1] and [2]. Just one recent example; there are many more. WaltonOne 13:01, 16 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
            • As an aside, I really cannot see the logic in this. Leaving because a 'secret page' is deleted I simply cannot understand. I would be grateful if you could give some insight. People weren't trying to 'manage others' time', or at least I see no evidence. ><RichardΩ612 14:17, 16 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
              • I don't know what his motivation was for making the comments I cited above; you'd have to ask him. (They are his words and not mine, hence the italics.) But, the fact is, it proves my point that there are constructive users who will be driven away from the project by aggressive userpage deletions. Whether or not you see the logic in their actions is immaterial. WaltonOne 15:03, 16 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • (deindent) That doesn't "disprove" my statement. If someone is willing to walk away from the project over having a page in their User space deleted, they didn't have much dedication to the project in the first place. -- Kesh (talk) 18:38, 16 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • My point exactly. [Admittedly worded a lot more concisely!] ><RichardΩ612 19:26, 16 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • Does it matter whether they had "much dedication to the project"? We need as many productive editors as we can get. Their reasons for editing are their own business, and it isn't okay to drive users away just because they were insufficiently "dedicated" to the project. As I keep saying, editors are our most important resource. It's not about hurting anyone's feelings, it's a simple cost-benefit issue. WaltonOne 09:00, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
          • By that reasoning, we should allow folks to do whatever they want in userspace, even if it turns Wikipedia into MySpace. I don't buy it. -- Kesh (talk) 17:34, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
            • I've never understood this mythical danger of "turning Wikipedia into MySpace". I have yet to see a single shred of evidence that any contributors have been driven away, or any part of the encyclopedia has been compromised, because of "too much social networking". On the other hand, I have seen (as mentioned) numerous examples of contributors who have left because of aggressive userspace deletions. Wikipedia is not going to turn into MySpace. We do not have a problem with too much social networking, or too many useless pages; these things are not compromising the quality of the encyclopedia - whereas the loss of contributors due to aggressive deletion is compromising the quality of the encyclopedia. I just don't understand why everyone seems to think that Wikipedia is on the verge of turning into a social networking site. It isn't. WaltonOne 18:22, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
              • You obviously missed the recent debate on "Secret Pages" and user cabals. This is a problem. -- Kesh (talk) 23:06, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
                • Actually I was an active participant in both those debates (indeed, my Aliasd example above is taken from the Secret Pages MfD). And I still don't see that it's a problem. No evidence was adduced that "secret pages" or "user cabals" have caused any editor to quit Wikipedia. On the other hand, evidence has been adduced (as I noted above) that the deletion of such pages can cause editors to quit Wikipedia. I don't see how "fun" pages do any harm to the encyclopedia. People keep going on about "focus" and "preventing Wikipedia from becoming MySpace", but there is no actual danger in that regard. Allowing limited social networking, for the sake of retaining editors, will not destroy the encyclopedia or turn it into a social networking site. WaltonOne 07:43, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • (deindent) Although 'Wikipedia turning into MySpace' has never occurred, that doesn't mean that we should stop trying to prevent it. If a newbie sees loads of pages like this, they may start making their own 'secret pages' and/or social networking pages at the expense of contributing to the 'pedia. More newbies turn up and see that this is 'accepted practice' and do the same, and the cycle goes round and round ad infinitum. I realise that this is a rather 'doom-and-gloom' vision, but it is a possibility. Sorry for being so cynical, but it's how I view things. However, I do agree that much of WP:NOT needs to be clarified, and I am close to starting a talk page discussion on this to avoid arguments like this one going on forever. ><RichardΩ612 08:59, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Obviously, keep. And thank you, Walton One, for explaining all that. I was surprised to find a page that reflects exactly what I was thinking: Why do you care? As long as I'm contributing to Wikipedia on a constructive way, what does it matter how I use my own userpage? The 2019 page doesn't harm any content on Wikipedia, so why delete it? Rather than so strictly adhering to policy, try not biting. Just thought I'd weigh in on this subject. After all, it is my own userpage(s) that are at stake, here. — TimAlderson | (loque)
  • Delete the sub-page novella/outline - Wikipedia is not your webhost. While I appreciate users who make contributions to the encyclopedia, that doesn't mean one can use Wikipedia to write novels, play games and act as MySpace. It's quite simple to set up your own Wikia if you really want wiki-style editing for your work, and there are a number of offline editors that use Wikimarkup. Also, no one actually "owns" their User space. Even userspace is subject to being edited by other users, or deleted outright. That said, I'm not sure why the user's own Userpage is listed in this nom, so Keep that. - Kesh (talk) 02:58, 16 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Go right ahead. Delete it. — TimAlderson | (loque)
  • Why is "User:TimAlderson" even on the list for deletion? — TimAlderson | (loque)
  • At this point, it doesn't matter to me if the "2019" page is deleted, but I don't see any reason for my User page to be deleted. (Whatever the case, as soon as this is resolved, I'm going on a long hiatus from Wikipedia.) — TimAlderson | (loque)
    Your userpage has a lengthy "quote" as well...
    As for your hiatus... Until you do, here's some reading for you, if you'd like: MeatBall:GoodBye. - jc37 04:57, 16 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete the '2019' page, Wikipedia is not a free webhost [and there are more appropriate places for writing a novel than WP, even if it were allowed]. Keep the userpage... not sure why that is here. ><RichardΩ612 07:28, 16 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong delete the subpage, we're not a free host. Snowolf How can I help? 15:50, 16 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - With respect I think it's a bit unfair of Tim to suggest that this is a case of don't bite the newcomers. As has been expressed eloquently and civilly by others, Wikipedia is not your personal web host. If you'd like to share your talent for creative writing with the world, there are plenty of places on the Intahwebs that will accommodate you. When you're notable, I'll happily pen your article. ;) X Marx The Spot (talk) 17:17, 16 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Please note that TimAlderson has contributed a number of articles to the encyclopedia, including Catabolysis (a good science-related article). He is a relatively new user, but clearly has the potential to be a good editor - the kind of person we need more of, not less. Please also note that he is now on an indefinite hiatus from Wikipedia, presumably as a result of this needless MfD. I think this proves my point: we should allow people to put whatever they want in their userspace, because it's preferable to losing editors. Loss of good contributors is a very real and constant danger; the supposed danger of "Wikipedia turning into MySpace", on the other hand, has never actually materialised. WaltonOne 18:33, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep I find the arguments of Walton One convincing. Such a deletion is more likely to harm than help. Hobit (talk) 11:56, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oh, and I'd say the deletion of the user's main page is just bizarre and clearly inappropriate. I'm assuming all of you !voting delete actually read the page? Hobit (talk) 12:24, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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