Talk:First Nations of Canada: Difference between revisions

this is a stub article - vastly more needs to be said about this, and I hope when it is that people will avoid Eurocentric terms - like "Americas"

I don't see how "Nearctic" (new north) and "Neotropic" (new tropic) are significantly less Eurocentric than "Americas" -- the idea of "old" (known to Europeans) and "new" (to Europeans, that is) is inherant in their derivation -- so what exactly do you have in mind to replace these three terms? Brion VIBBER

hmm, yes you're right, "Eurocentric" is the wrong term... Nearctic and Neotropic are like Latin names in taxonomy, though, they describe ecologies like plants and animals, with a standard name worldwide. So maybe the point is simply not to force "First Nations" to speak of themselves as being "of the Americas", given the often-nasty colonial history? Kind of like not asking Palestinians to refer to their home as "Greater Israel", etc...

since the whole point of being a First nation is that you were or are there First, it refers to a time when everyone was pretty tightly tied to the land for their living - thus the ecologists' terms seem to me more neutral by far than "the Americas". But, maybe I am overestimating the concern about this.

I tell you what: ask some members of these nations -- normal, ordinary folks, like the proverbial m:three billionth user, not ecologists -- whether "the Americas" is offensive or not, and what term they would normally use when speaking English to refer to the collected major landmasses of the western hemisphere. There's no point in speculating here, surely? Brion VIBBER

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Does anyone besides Canadians use this term? --rmhermen

Never heard it used in Oz, except to describe the Canadian situation. --Robert Merkel

Oz it's "Aborigines", U.S. it's usually "Native Americans" but in Canada the term First Nations is used very broadly to apply to all w:indigenous peoples and when in Canada they usually just use that term perhaps out of solidarity. US Natives in the US hear it and don't question its application to themselves, maybe perceiving that they'd be better off under the Canadian treaties and gain some advantage by using that term? There was some serious celebration when Nunuvat became quasi-independent, as I understand from many native friends... they seemed to view it as a first step back to controlling their land base... maybe widespread use of "First Nations" as a phrase was a consequence of that success? Maybe temporary? I don't know. Heck that may all be an article in itself.

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It's not up to white men from Oz, US, or CA to decide what is "polemic", Robert. It is resistance to colonization processes which defines these peoples, and why they stick together.

From their point of view, we are part of that process.

It makes more sense to err on the side of overly-neutral terms where possible, and if some indigenous person thinks they are overdone, then fine, let *THEM* cut it back to "Americas" and remove reference to "colonization".

This word "polemic" seems to have become standard among the "particle physics view of the world is the only view of the world" crowd. Who have no problem with polemic phrases like w:Theory of Everything, w:Standard Model, etc. It's time this little clique was busted, by a more democratic concept of such terms - 24

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Two quick points:

1. The use of the "ecological" names to describe the continents is very much a minority usage, and that minority usage is irrelevant to the main thrust of the article.
2. AFAICT, the reaction of indigenous peoples (at least in Australia) towards the anti-globalization movements is quite complex. Some parts of the communities do seem to identify with them, some want economic development and if that comes through multinational mining companies that's just fine, and the majority are having quite enough trouble dealing with the one imported culture that they've been struggling with since European settlement to care about or even notice others. Hence, the broad claim in the earlier version of the article was IMHO very inaccurate.

By all means, let the article discuss that, but surely it should be in the context of discussing the history of the idea of First Nations and their many and varied activities, rather than concentrate on one aspect of it.

Thanks for signing your comment, by the way. --Robert Merkel.