Talk:Marie Lloyd: Difference between revisions

Biography assessment rating comment

WikiProject Biography Assessment

Barely a B; could use more references.

The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Yamara 16:57, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Grave

Can someone put in exactly where her grave is "North London" is much too big a place! john mullen

HTH Kbthompson 13:49, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Copyvio?

Not sure which is the copy this or that but see http://www.peopleplayuk.org.uk/guided_tours/music_hall_tour/music_hall_stars/lloyd.php "In one famous incident... and doing herself no favours." and this text from this article "In one famous incident, ... She did herself no favours." the site is not cited and the words are very similar. --Philip Baird Shearer (talk) 00:24, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

WP: Women's History Assessment Commentary

Assessed as C-class, for lack of references. Boneyard90 (talk) 10:30, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Proposed replacement of content

Does anybody have any objections if I swap the current article for a version I have been working on of late. I intend to eventually make this featured content. Any thoughts? -- Cassianto^Talk 00:41, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

An excellent plan: let me know if you need proofing or assistance. - SchroCat (talk) 13:22, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the offer which I shall greatfully take you up on. I will hunt down some sources at the BL over the next few weeks and report back. Since replaced! -- Cassianto^Talk 14:28, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

From B to C class.

I agree. It is on my "to do" list but I keep getting distracted. I have all the literature but I'm finding it difficult to commit right now. -- Cassianto^Talk 18:01, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

"The Three Ages of Woman"

Does this now make sense? -- Cassianto^Talk 12:41, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

'"The Three Ages of Woman", which took a cynical look from a female's perspective of the opposite sex' - the opposite sex being men, then, even though the title has 'Woman'? Rothorpe (talk) 12:55, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

I agree that this is not clear. Can you clarify, Cassianto? -- Ssilvers (talk) 14:15, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Mustn't forget this. Who's looking at whom? Rothorpe (talk) 10:43, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Basically, It was Lloyd making comic observations about the opposite sex. But I'm damned if I can find it now. I have looked EVERYWHERE! --Cassianto^Talk 11:22, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Never mind, I've rewritten it accordingly. Rothorpe (talk) 11:36, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

doh, there it is! Yes, the edit looks great and makes much more sense, thanks. -- Cassianto^Talk 11:48, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Marie no longer starry

So we were wrong (on my talk page), it doesn't rhyme with 'starry' but has the conventional French/English pronunciation? Rothorpe (talk) 12:02, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Well, her name does rhyme with starry, but the correct thing to do would be to put the pronunciation template in (like we said). After a lot of flpping and save previews, I managed to do it, but it asked me for the pronunciation. I thought the pronunciation of "Marie" (rhyming with "starry") sounded a bit French, so I opted for that. I also found a citation from Gillies, who also used the "starry" rhyme. Would this be correct? -- Cassianto^Talk 17:58, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

No, the starry Marie is very much an English pronunciation, one might say a Victorian one; it's the modern pron that is like the French, roughly. But not to worry, I've put both starry and the IPA in now. Rothorpe (talk) 18:58, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Great. Remind me never to use my dodgy pronunciations in France... --Cassianto^Talk 04:52, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Marie Lloyd/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Pyrotec (talk · contribs) 16:43, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

I will review this nomination. Pyrotec (talk) 16:43, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Initial comments

• Now reviewing. Sorry for the delay. Pyrotec (talk) 16:33, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
  • No worries, welcome back! -- Cassianto^Talk 01:35, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
    • Thanks very much, I booked and took a late-availability holiday in Norway (five days before departure), so it was quite cheep. Pyrotec (talk) 20:06, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

I've now read through the article, once, quite quickly and I've glanced at the references, but not checked them at all. On this basis, my impression is that this article is probably at GA-level and perhaps well on the way to being at FA, but I will not be assessing it against WP:FAC, only against the requirements of WP:WIAGA. Pyrotec (talk) 20:06, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Tomorrow, I'll start to work my way through the article in a bit more depth, beginning at the Biography section and finishing with the Lead. This will probably take a few days, but my aim is to have this review finished by, or during, the weekend.

...stopping for now. To be continued tomorrow. Pyrotec (talk) 20:06, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

• Biography -
  • Family background and early life & Early career and first marriage -

• On the basis for my review, these two subsection appear to be compliant with WP:WIAGA. I merely added one wikilink to injunction.

• • 1890s -

• Possibly, it's a typo, but this subsection twice in the second paragraph of Drury Lane and success refers to "Courtney" but elsewhere "Courtenay", as in Percy Charles Courtenay, is used.

• Well spotted! Now changed. -- Cassianto^Talk 19:03, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

• Thanks. Pyrotec (talk) 20:34, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

...stopping for now. To be continued. Pyrotec (talk) 19:00, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

• This subsection is now regarded as being compliant. Pyrotec (talk) 20:34, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

• • 1900s -

• Just a comment, the link in the second line to coster goes to a Surname disambig-page, I assume the intended usage is Costermonger?

• Yes it should be, and now is. I have tweaked this slightly. -- Cassianto^Talk 22:35, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

• This subsection appears to be compliant.

• • Later years -

• This subsection appears to be compliant.

• • Decline and death -

...stopping for now. To be continued. Pyrotec (talk) 20:54, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

• This subsection appears to be compliant.

• WP:Lead -

• Quite a good lead, which both introduces the topic of the article and summarises the main points, as per WP:Lead. Pyrotec (talk) 18:29, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Overall summary

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

---

An informative, well-referenced and well-illustrated article on the life and works of Marie Lloyd.

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose quality:

   B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. Has an appropriate reference section:

   B. Citation to reliable sources where necessary:

   C. No original research:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   B. Focused:

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

I'm pleased to be able to award this article GA-status. As per my comments, near the start of this review, I believe that this article has strong potential as a WP:FAC. Congratulations on a fine article. Pyrotec (talk) 18:29, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Once again, thank you for the review Pyrotec and for the shiny green circle. Your thoughts and praise make the effort and research all the more worthwhile. -- Cassianto^Talk 20:15, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Marie Lloyd Jr

I have removed the image of Marie Lloyd Jr from the article because she is not mentioned anywhere in the text and because Marie Lloyd had no children as far as I am aware and this woman was born when Lloyd was 14 so can't be her daughter anyway. Jack1956 (talk) 07:03, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

"Marie Lloyd had no children as far as I am aware . . ."

See the article text

"In October 1888, Lloyd returned from maternity leave . . ."

and

"In 1896, Lloyd sailed to South Africa with her daughter, who appeared as Little Maudie Courtenay on the same bill as her mother.^[100]" {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 212.95.237.92 (talk) 13:34, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Didn't spot that - image reinstated. Jack1956 (talk) 14:07, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Jim Callaghan

Is it worth mentioning that James Callaghan wrongly attributed the song Waiting at the Church to her, in a controversial speech in 1978? PatGallacher (talk) 15:58, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

No, I think we are verging on trivia with that. Cassianto^talk 00:09, 19 June 2014 (UTC)